Do i REALLY need a thermostat?

[Ssthisto]

Actually, the "Do I really need a thermostat" thread was posted MONTHS before the recent thread about the badly burned snake.

I think the point of Becky's post is simple: The stat failed, allowing the heat mat to get to the temperature it would get to WITHOUT the thermostatic control. Therefore, using one without thermostatic control (whether that is because there is no stat at all OR because the thermostat fails) will produce excessive temperatures.

TBH I don't do heat mats inside vivs with snakes at all; I do have mats outside plastic tub racking systems (on thermostats) that work very well because the snake has no direct access to the mat NOR are the mats allowed to get to abnormal temperatures. We check them on a regular basis to ensure the temperatures are correct, but the thermostats are there for the hours every day we're at work and the hours while we are asleep.

[BeckyL]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

You make it sound as though thermostats stop anything bad happening but then make a post about how you were very lucky to save your snake from a supposed 'super hot heatmat' even though it has a stat on it?

Equipment fails. My fridge can stop working, or my heater, or my car, but I wouldn't be without these things because I need them. The brakes on my car can theoretically fail but I sure wouldn't try to drive the car without them!

I have four thermostats and have been using them for 5/6 years. This is the first and only time I've ever had one give me a problem. The risk of a thermostat failing, and allowing the temperature to spike, is miniscule compared to the risk presented to my snakes if I wasn't using one at all.

Originally Posted by Morgoth

This entire argument seems to hinge on those pictures of that heavy boid snake with the burns from an incorrectly applied heatmat - and that was WITH a stat lol. It appears stats aren't a solution to this fictional problem with heatmat temperatures.

The thermostat was in all likelihood doing what it should and keeping the temperature at the set level. The large snake caused thermal blocking. Therefore this was human error and the problem here was the use of the wrong heat source with a large animal, not the prescence or otherwise of a thermostat.

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by BeckyL

The thermostat was in all likelihood doing what it should and keeping the temperature at the set level. The large snake caused thermal blocking. Therefore this was human error and the problem here was the use of the wrong heat source with a large animal, not the prescence or otherwise of a thermostat.

Therefore why did somebody bring it into the discussion as proof that heatmats need stats?

As to heatmats getting to abnormal temperatures, I guess thats just something we are gonna agree to disagree on. Again I bring up the old 86.5f reading off a 60watt heatmat which is brand new and working well.

[New Hoggy Owner]

Originally Posted by spirit975

Thanks folks...can you tell i`m bored??

Should mention that this is in my kitchen on what has been a relatively cool evening. I`ve not done anything to influence the temperatures.

Thanks for this post, it has answered a question i wanted to test, and saved me buying a mat...lol
somone told me i should have a mat and not a thermo controlled rock, rock being a 6 watt, and i did same experiment with a digi thermometer as well, it goes to 81.1 to 82.2, and stays like that after taking about 2 hours to slowly get there, somone said a rock was dangerous, i pointed out a mat was if not installed correctly.....didnt realise they could go that high...
i use a uvb daylight floursecent bulb ( 15 watt ) and the heat rock ( 6 watt ) and my hoggy is a very happy little chap.

if you got a stat on the matt and it stuck, guess ya get same result crispy snake.......scarry.

[Ssthisto]

Originally Posted by New Hoggy Owner

somone told me i should have a mat and not a thermo controlled rock, rock being a 6 watt, and i did same experiment with a digi thermometer as well, it goes to 81.1 to 82.2, and stays like that after taking about 2 hours to slowly get there, somone said a rock was dangerous.

I actually asked one of the "thermostatically controlled" hot rock manufacturers "How do I set it to the temperature I want it to get to? The documentation says the thermostat shuts the rock off when the sensor reaches 115 degrees, but that's 30 degrees too hot for my corn snake."

There is no user-determinable thermostat control for the rock in question; the heat cutoff is too high to make it practical for anything other than keeping diurnal desert lizards like beardies or monitors. The safety cut-out is 150 degrees, by the way - they guarantee their rock won't exceed that. But they don't guarantee they don't exceed the 85 degrees I WANT a hot rock to be.

Unless a hot rock is used in conjunction with an external thermostat I wouldn't suggest one of those either.

[New Hoggy Owner]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

Guys the actual wording in the Habistat manual (which you haven't addressed) is far more supportive of my argument than yours. And who should people listen to? A reptile appliance specialist company, or some stubborn veterans on a forum?

the actual wording of the people wanting you to buy there product is saying its bloody marvelous......wonder why..

if it said this item is crap and will frazzle yuor snake in 5 seconds would you have bought it then......guess not, and the infra red thermo can only read what its aimed at, the mat however could have been microwaved for a minute to show a high reading....lol...not saying it was like....

and with the bulb theories, how many people are using basic tungsten and infra red only bulbs, that dont have uvb rays included, like natural daylight.
be much better with spot bulb for heat and uvb floursecent for daylight photo period.......makes bones healthy and snake happy....
this debate could go on forever......and snakes are very tolerant of crap heating, they will survive a lot of crappy temps that dont mimic there proper temps, hardy little beasties....

[BeckyL]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

Therefore why did somebody bring it into the discussion as proof that heatmats need stats?

I think the idea was to show the sort of injuries that a too-hot heat mat can inflict on a snake.

Originally Posted by Morgoth

As to heatmats getting to abnormal temperatures, I guess thats just something we are gonna agree to disagree on. Again I bring up the old 86.5f reading off a 60watt heatmat which is brand new and working well.

Do you have any pictures of this temperature reading? Several people have posted picture evidence that heat mats do get too hot, but so far there's been no real evidence to the contrary.

[guypettigrew]

Originally Posted by BeckyL

I think the idea was to show the sort of injuries that a too-hot heat mat can inflict on a snake.
Do you have any pictures of this temperature reading? Several people have posted picture evidence that heat mats do get too hot, but so far there's been no real evidence to the contrary.

The other day I plugged a heat mat straight into a wall socket and left it on the side in my snake room for about 20 minutes.

Came back and measured the surface temperature with an infrared thermometer and it was 108F. I turned it off at that point, so I don't know if it would have got even hotter.

Guy

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by BeckyL

Do you have any pictures of this temperature reading? Several people have posted picture evidence that heat mats do get too hot, but so far there's been no real evidence to the contrary.

1. Nothing in this thread is proof of anything, image-wise. The heatmats could have been heated prior to being measured, or the thermometers possibly. And thats not taking into account the very 'loose' format of simply showing someone with a thermomter with a ridiculous temperature being displayed with a heatmat in the background.

Secondly my PC is not bluetooth enabled, thus if I take a picture with my phone I can't get it onto the PC.
But even were I able to it would do nothing as we would hear things to the effect of:

That thermomter is not designed for surface temps
That thermometer is faulty
That heatmat is malfunctioning
Your doing it wrongly
You've only just turned that heatmat on

etc etc etc.

[guypettigrew]

Hello Morgoth

Confused of Horley here!

Are you saying heat mats DON'T need a thermostat, and the high surface temperaure reading I got was innacurate?

Guy