Do i REALLY need a thermostat?

[kerryrep22]

oh just read morgoths last thread and think its great, and totally agree with him on his points, this thread is stupid, even if we are the only two in the world that disagree with the rest of you, thats fine, just cos we are the minority does not mean that we are wrong and are neglecting our snakes. so i am also gonna sign off this thread and leave you guys to it, but just one final point, i do think it looks a bit silly that even though i am willing to take on board alot of ur useful points, that none of you can even suggest that a little of what we have said is actually true in parts, or even acknowlede that at least for us it works

[BeckyL]

Originally Posted by kerryrep22

i do think it looks a bit silly that even though i am willing to take on board alot of ur useful points, that none of you can even suggest that a little of what we have said is actually true in parts, or even acknowlede that at least for us it works

If you'll look through my earlier posts in this thread, you'll notice my saying that I would love to see some evidence for what you are saying, because I very much like to learn something new from other keepers. You needn't suggest that people are disagreeing with you out of snobbery

I have seen pictures posted which at least attempt to demonstrate that thermostats should be used. I have seen too-hot heamats with my own eyes. I have also requested evidence for the use of heat mats WITHOUT a stat, but nobody has produced a thing. If you choose to use an uncontrolled heater, that is your call, but you can't expect people who have had bad experiences with heat mats to just come around to your way of thinking, just because you say that your mat "doesn't seem too hot" and your snakes "seem fine." All it proves to me is that you've been lucky.

Have you measured your temperatures with a digi thermometer yet?

[Onissarle]

Originally Posted by kerryrep22

i do think it looks a bit silly that even though i am willing to take on board alot of ur useful points, that none of you can even suggest that a little of what we have said is actually true in parts, or even acknowlede that at least for us it works

I'll concede to Morgoth that he's managed to balance a set up that works for him that operates within reasonable boundaries 99% of the time. The species he's keeping are fairly resilient, so it works out okay assuming nothing disastrous happens. However, as Morgoth points out, he's been keeping a long time and has fine tuned his methods over many years. He puts a lot of time and effort into getting the enclosure running at a level he's happy with and even if I vehemently disagree with him on some points, he honestly believes he is providing a suitable, stable environment for his animals to the best of his ability. The same methods wouldn't work well for your average, less experienced, keeper.

You on the other hand, don't have his experience and don't seem to take any care or time ensuring the conditions are suitable for your animals. You seem to have set up your royal enclosure to simply run at whatever temperature the mat seems to transfer through the tiles and show no regard to whether or not that is the best temperature range for that species. From what Morgoth has said, (and please correct me if I'm wrong, Morgoth) I think he'd supplement that heating with a bulb or increase the wattage if there's one already in there. Maybe try using thinner or thicker tiles to get the temperature right, then spend time fine tuning it until he was happy the basking area was maintaining at the correct temperature range for that animal.

He puts a lot of effort into what he does and despite our differences I can respect that. He believes he is providing the best conditions he can for the animals he keeps and spends time and effort making sure of that. You are complacent. You've put the minimal amount of effort possible into your setup, not bothered to check if it's maintaining the best temperatures and then just left it. Worse, when you know that it is significantly cooler than recommended, you don't even consider altering your setup to improve conditions for the snake.

the arguement here is not what is essential it is what is essentially safe .. what is the BEST we can do.. not the least

some keepers will do ALL they can.. some will not..

I fall into the first category .. you dont

simple really

That really sums it up. Morgoth has different methods and I strongly disagree with them in some aspects but they are well thought out methods that he puts a lot of effort in to. Some people simply refuse to make the effort.

[angela__k__84]

Originally Posted by kerryrep22

ok i am clearly the only person here on the forum that doesnt have a stat, maybe apart from morgoth, he he, even though i know that is so not true but everyone else is too scared to say they dnt have a stat, and i have said so many times that i may even get a stat anyway, but i really feel that what i wrote above is so true in many ways, and i cant believe that anybody apart from me doesnt at least feel that there is at least some truth in what i said about knowing your animals and knowing what works for them, and every case being individual! especially those who have been keeping reptiles forever. but if nobody else agrees with me than that is fine, and i do fink your opinions are very valid.

When I moved my MBK into her larger viv I stupidly assumed I would not need a stat. Her heat mat was covered with an aired tile and her substrate on top but just to be sure I put the digital thermometer in too. The mat got to about 90f which is a little high but not enough to worry. By this time I had decided I would be going to buy a new mat stat the next morning. I fell asleep for an hour or so and when I woke up the mat was reading 127f through a mat, and
on top of her substrate! I literally jumped out of bed and spent the remainder of the night staring at the thermometer and turning her mat on and off.
I felt gutted that this had happened. Had I not woke up and she had been like that all night who knows what would have happened. Thankfully she wasn't over the mat, it had clearly got too warm for her and she'd moved to the cool end. The next morning I travelled for nearly two hours to get her a mat stat. Can't recommend them highly enough.

[kerryrep22]

just to silence all my critics i have spent my day re-arranging all my reps vivs so they are all textbook correct for temps and absolutely everything, but yes apart from the stat, and yes it does take alot of effort to get all the temps rite so i mite get a stat, i can concede that, my corns viv is running a perfect 31 oC on the hottest basking spot, surface temp, not air, and yes a decent thermometer was used and yeh i could put pics up but i mean they could be temps ive taken from anything tbh, so that is not really proof, im afraid all you can do is take my word for it so thats ur choice. my royals basking spot is a steady 34. something now cos i have re-arranged their viv completely, and i even went round and double-checked all my leos and frogs and other reps too, so they are perfect, which they were anyway, according to the numbers they should be in the books. i totally get your points that i am not very experienced, and that is completely fair, and of course i understand the terrible experiences some of you have had, and i have taken notice of all of your points, i mean i did not know about the vinyl issue and i now know so that i wnt do that in future, thank you, and alot of the other fings i have learnt from you all, so i appreciate the help. the reason i have done all this re-arranging today is because i love my reps so much, and i do not want anyone, even people i dnt know on this forum, thinking that i cant look after my reptiles properly or that i would neglect them in anyway because that makes me sad. i hope you can appreciate why i seemed so defensive when you were all ganging up on me, and i hope the effort i have put in today at least shows some of you that i am not neglectful and i do really care and love my animals! and i really do put loads of effort in and spend alot of time trying to make them happy and helathy, my reptiles are my life! so i apologise for what i have got wrong, but not for the reasons why i defended them. i mite get a stat too, if that puts all ur minds at rest. but i do still fink some of you could have been a bit nicer about the way you put stuff, and maybe not just on this thread but others on here too, esp for people who are more sensitive than me and are just asking for help, though i know ur all trying to help and u r just passionate about ur animals and keeping them the right way. anyway, there r certainly no hard feelings from me, and i hope not from you too,

[zak8282]

Lol very concerning!! Cool thread..

[guypettigrew]

Originally Posted by zak8282

Lol very concerning!! Cool thread..

But only if it's thermostatically controlled!

Guy

[kerryrep22]

hey, im buying a stat!

[New Hoggy Owner]

hi all, this debate was a very good valid reason showing why not to buy mats.
snakes dont naturaly get just heated from undernieth and will sit on something that gets too hot if not heated from radiated heat by sun/light.
and if a stat is not used to shut off excessive high heats then we arent being fair to our snakes....
ive thrown the heated rock out, bought some spot bulbs, mounted them outside the vivs with mesh between the bulb and snakes, set the bulbs to run at 80-82, and set the stat to turn lighting off if temp increases by more than 4 degrees, and measured the temp at hottest point in middle of basking area.
using a natural rock as a heated up by spot radiator......all natural, works a treat.....night doesnt go down more than 12 degrees in room so just shuts off when daylight hours have passed.
and have a uvb flourescent to give full daylight rays as well......
and now ill shut up and go to bed.....night all

[MissCat]

hi, i'm wondering (not that i disagree with this thread, as i DONT!)
Why oh Why do most pet shops sell the starter kits with heatmats and not stats???
ususally they try to con you out of your hard earned money by making you buy things you dont need (for example a 4ft viv for a 55cm long royal- yes i have had that experience LOL)
and yet they dont try to MAKE you buy a stat??
not all pet shops are like that i conceed, watermarque in yeovil wouldn't let me buy my bearded dragons without having first bought a stat, albeit the most expensive one they had lol - i was cluless so just went with what they said. but that's the point, most people who buy their first reptile are marginly clueless about the animal, no matter how many books or websites i've read i have always listened to the store with regards to care.
i now take what pet shops say with a pinch of salt.