Please think about it - gravid snakes

[April Taylor]

Originally Posted by Athravan

I have had a rather heartbreaking conversation with someone who recently purchased at a show a "heavily gravid" corn snake, who unfortunately died on the 5 hour return journey. I have also spoken to someone else who bought a gravid animal, and seen at least one post in the forums when glancing at "who bought what" threads saying they bought a gravid animal.

I am placing no blame with any names and I am not posting this to make any one feel bad or have a go at anyone in specific. But if you are a seller and you are thinking about selling a gravid animal, or you are a buyer and thinking about buying one, please consider the risks. I don't have a go at people after the fact, but I do want to try and help / educate people to avoid it happening again or at least give people something to think about.

Any animal whilst in pregnancy - especially towards the end - could be more sensitive to stress, light, movement, noise and of course, temperature. Stress is a killer of animals at the best of times, an animal who's body is already working overtime to protect it's young could be in a higher risk factor - just like a pregnant woman is.

If you're pregnant, the doctor recommends you don't stress, you eat healthy, you avoid certain types of exercise, long trips in confined spaces, plane trips, etc.

The snake that died, was clearly heavily gravid and marketted as so, with the buyer thinking it was a "bargain" because of the offspring he would receive. It was packaged as "normal" for carrying a snake - which I have nothing against, but this is a small tupperware tub with paper towel in it. Not a moss box, not a temperature controlled environment, some snakes will want to stretch out and exercise before they give birth, and should not be confined to a small space. The seller had travelled 3 hours to sell the animal, the animal was then in this small container for 4 hours at the show, following a 5 hour return journey.

There is no PM yet to say that the animal was healthy or that it being heavily gravid was a factor, but I consider it to be a risk.

In this case, I genuinely believe both the buyer and the seller, knowing them both, did not consider the risk factor out of ignorance, not out of any malicious intent. Therefore, considering the two other confirmed sales recently I know of at shows of gravid animals - I just wanted to write this - and say, if you are considering at the next show selling a gravid animal, please reconsider!

If you are going to sell a gravid animal transport it yourself directly to the buyer in an appropriate container, at least provide the substrate such as moss that the animal can feel it's in it's moss box and could lay if stress brought on an early labour. Don't leave it in a box on a table at a show after a long drive, there's just no need and I cannot see it being good for the animals health.

I know there will be plenty of responses saying "Well I've transported a gravid snake and it was fine.." "I bought one and it's fine.." that's not the point. A doctor tells you it's not as safe to do something during pregnancy, you can still do it, and you may be fine 99% of the time - but that doesn't mean the 1% can't happen and captive snakes cannot have their own say in their welfare and their offspring, you have to take that responsibility.

So, RIP to the corn snake and her future offspring.

Very good thread Athravan

[Athravan]

Originally Posted by tick

Hi Athravan sorry to say this but the worst offenders for buying gravid animals are shops as they are the most experienced at spotting a gravid animal and will snap the sellers arm of at the idea of getting free babies of which ever species they buy. I v seen it more than a few times happening around this area.

That may well be true for your area, there are many business practices in the UK I don't agree with. I hope this post will make them re-assess (feel free to forward it to them, ya never know!) The people I see selling in the snake classifieds section are private individuals advertising to other individuals, the people who put them out at shows are private breeders selling mostly to private people who attend the shows. But I really don't care WHY someone is buying or selling a gravid snake (it often seems to be about money but that's not my concern), my main concern is that people may sell them without even realising or thinking about the dangers. I'm not interested in playing the blame game, we could be here all day.

People will put animals at risk for money all over the world, that's just how it goes. Perhaps some people genuinely don't realise and will read this warning and take heed, can't hurt to try anyway I understand many people will still choose to buy and sell gravid animals but often people don't even think of transporting them in a moss box so if they were induced to lay they might have less of a chance of becoming egg bound or suffering a stress induced seizure or heart problem. Education is the key to all animal welfare and I will bump this thread up every year if necessary just in case it helps someone.

[tick]

Originally Posted by Athravan

That may well be true for your area, there are many business practices in the UK I don't agree with. I hope this post will make them re-assess (feel free to forward it to them, ya never know!) The people I see selling in the snake classifieds section are private individuals advertising to other individuals, the people who put them out at shows are private breeders selling mostly to private people who attend the shows. But I really don't care WHY someone is buying or selling a gravid snake (it often seems to be about money but that's not my concern), my main concern is that people may sell them without even realising or thinking about the dangers. I'm not interested in playing the blame game, we could be here all day.

People will put animals at risk for money all over the world, that's just how it goes. Perhaps some people genuinely don't realise and will read this warning and take heed, can't hurt to try anyway I understand many people will still choose to buy and sell gravid animals but often people don't even think of transporting them in a moss box so if they were induced to lay they might have less of a chance of becoming egg bound or suffering a stress induced seizure or heart problem. Education is the key to all animal welfare and I will bump this thread up every year if necessary just in case it helps someone.

Iagree the amount of threads you see with possibly gravid royal in them are uncanny

[andybe18]

i have to admit that I have a gravid corn for sale, but now having read this thread has made me re assess and am removing from the classifieds. Good points made and made me re think

[georgiex]

great thread

[cabrera]

Athravan a very good thread and I support what you have said 100%. I myself do not agree with gravid females or egg being being bought and sold. I too have heard alot of people say "I did it and it was fine" and that may be the case however my answer to such people is just because you have done such a thing with no problems does not make it right.

In a time when the hobby is receiving such bad press selling gravid females and eggs at shows is just another nail in the coffin.

I hope people read this thread and think about the wellfare of the animals and NOT their bank balance.

[April Taylor]

Originally Posted by andybe18

i have to admit that I have a gravid corn for sale, but now having read this thread has made me re assess and am removing from the classifieds. Good points made and made me re think

this just goes to show that this thread deserves it's 5stars!

[sooty]

Bumping up a brilliant thread,mx

[Pauline]

Well said, Athravan, let's hope a few snakes lives are saved as a result..

[Sarbs]

Bump to the top after seeing a thread on the classifieds for gravid royals, hope the seller/buyers are aware of this important info!