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Old 04-05-2009, 06:18 PM
rattysue's Avatar
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Default RI's in snakes...

I really need as much information on RI's in snakes as possible please although I cannot state the reason why but I can stress I do not have any of my snakes poorly.

Firstly how is it transmitted? can one snake pass it onto another?
Does poor husbandry have anything to do with it being transmitted?
What sort of treatment? I've read about baytril and increasing temps but what about mouth swabs and nebulisers?
If you had a snake infected in your rep room would there be reason to isolate it?
If a shop had RI in their snakes should it be moved from the rest of the stock or is it safe for it to still be in the shop environment getting treatment?
Would you buy from a shop where you knew there was a snake there with RI?
would you report the shop?
Do you think the cstomers would have a right to know?
If you are a breeder and had babies to sell would you have to tell prospective new owners that you had a snake with RI?
Can it affect other reps?
How does a snake ger RI's and how long does it take to materialise? How long should it be before treatment if effective?
Should there be an improvement after, say, 4-5 months?

I would be greatful if people could reply with as much info as possible please.
Thankyou for taking time to read this...
__________________
6.5.cats. Morticia, Gomez, Marilyn, Manson, Ty, Mr Bigglesworth, Alice, Lemmy, Angus, Spider and baby Annie
3.0. ferrets. Harry, Georgie and Charlie
too many snakes, lizards and rats to mention....rats as pets not food.

RIP..Megan and Idris who never actually made it home
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:47 PM
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If a snake had an RI in a pet shop, it would be extremely irresponsible to sell it, particularly without informing the customer.

I have experienced an RI, I took my Retic straight to the vets and prescribed some Baytril, which is great stuff. He gave me more than i needed, so I have some spare just in case... A good vet.

This sight has a lot of good info on RIs so have a look:

Respiratory Tract Infection in Reptiles

Hope this helps!
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimalUrges View Post
If a snake had an RI in a pet shop, it would be extremely irresponsible to sell it, particularly without informing the customer.

I have experienced an RI, I took my Retic straight to the vets and prescribed some Baytril, which is great stuff. He gave me more than i needed, so I have some spare just in case... A good vet.

This sight has a lot of good info on RIs so have a look:

Respiratory Tract Infection in Reptiles

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the link, was very informtive but a lot of my questions are still unanswered.
Please if anyone can help would they please reply
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6.5.cats. Morticia, Gomez, Marilyn, Manson, Ty, Mr Bigglesworth, Alice, Lemmy, Angus, Spider and baby Annie
3.0. ferrets. Harry, Georgie and Charlie
too many snakes, lizards and rats to mention....rats as pets not food.

RIP..Megan and Idris who never actually made it home
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:10 PM
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well i bought a snake from a reputable shop and found out afterwards that it had ri in shop and i was never told this ,also it was a bad feeder and was not told this either ( not a cheap morph either £875)
so if a rep shop sells animals with ri knowingly they should not be allowed to trade anymore

ive learnt the hard way loosing a lot of snakes due to ri because of one irresponsible pet shop and would never buy from a shop who has this in there shop

i think most shop would of had this at some point in there snakes but the ones that have had it should not be sold without buying knowing it has had it ,
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:17 PM
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Firstly how is it transmitted? can one snake pass it onto another?
Airborne transmittion and yes it is contagious
Does poor husbandry have anything to do with it being transmitted?
Yes, it is a bacterial infection in the lungs and can be caused by poor hygiene, i.e leaving your snake sat in a dirty, humid environment
What sort of treatment? I've read about baytril and increasing temps but what about mouth swabs and nebulisers?
First course of action should be to increase the temps in the environment. Then a trip to the vet. How the vet treats it will depend on there past experience. Ours supplies in IM injections of Zinacef (Cefuroxime) to be injected into the cranial third of the of the body every 3 days. Then nebulising with Amakin every day.
If you had a snake infected in your rep room would there be reason to isolate it?
Yes, it should be isolated immediatly. You should deal with the snake last each day, use seperate equipment/materials and change your clothes after been in the room.
If a shop had RI in their snakes should it be moved from the rest of the stock or is it safe for it to still be in the shop environment getting treatment?
See above
Would you buy from a shop where you knew there was a snake there with RI?
No
would you report the shop?
I would speak to the owner and suggest that they quaranteened it.
Do you think the cstomers would have a right to know?
I dont know
If you are a breeder and had babies to sell would you have to tell prospective new owners that you had a snake with RI?
If I had a snake with an RI then it would have been immediatly moved to a seperate room and quaranteened so I wouldn't really need to. If I thought that there was a chance the rest of the collection had it then I wouldnt sell until I was sure.
Can it affect other reps?
??
How does a snake ger RI's and how long does it take to materialise?
Poor husbandry and from others
How long should it be before treatment if effective?
Depends on how quickly you treat it and the species
Should there be an improvement after, say, 4-5 months?
In boa's yes. We bought a boa a while ago that had an RI, we treated it as soon as it arrived and it recovered in a week. I think its more complecated when it comes to royals, they don't seem to recover to well from it.
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BecciBoo View Post
Firstly how is it transmitted? can one snake pass it onto another?
Airborne transmittion and yes it is contagious
Does poor husbandry have anything to do with it being transmitted?
Yes, it is a bacterial infection in the lungs and can be caused by poor hygiene, i.e leaving your snake sat in a dirty, humid environment
What sort of treatment? I've read about baytril and increasing temps but what about mouth swabs and nebulisers?
First course of action should be to increase the temps in the environment. Then a trip to the vet. How the vet treats it will depend on there past experience. Ours supplies in IM injections of Zinacef (Cefuroxime) to be injected into the cranial third of the of the body every 3 days. Then nebulising with Amakin every day.
If you had a snake infected in your rep room would there be reason to isolate it?
Yes, it should be isolated immediatly. You should deal with the snake last each day, use seperate equipment/materials and change your clothes after been in the room.
If a shop had RI in their snakes should it be moved from the rest of the stock or is it safe for it to still be in the shop environment getting treatment?
See above
Would you buy from a shop where you knew there was a snake there with RI?
No
would you report the shop?
I would speak to the owner and suggest that they quaranteened it.
Do you think the cstomers would have a right to know?
I dont know
If you are a breeder and had babies to sell would you have to tell prospective new owners that you had a snake with RI?
If I had a snake with an RI then it would have been immediatly moved to a seperate room and quaranteened so I wouldn't really need to. If I thought that there was a chance the rest of the collection had it then I wouldnt sell until I was sure.
Can it affect other reps?
??
How does a snake ger RI's and how long does it take to materialise?
Poor husbandry and from others
How long should it be before treatment if effective?
Depends on how quickly you treat it and the species
Should there be an improvement after, say, 4-5 months?
In boa's yes. We bought a boa a while ago that had an RI, we treated it as soon as it arrived and it recovered in a week. I think its more complecated when it comes to royals, they don't seem to recover to well from it.

Thanks BecciBoo...that's exactly what I was after...I was just wondering though how long does this infection take to materialise?
__________________
6.5.cats. Morticia, Gomez, Marilyn, Manson, Ty, Mr Bigglesworth, Alice, Lemmy, Angus, Spider and baby Annie
3.0. ferrets. Harry, Georgie and Charlie
too many snakes, lizards and rats to mention....rats as pets not food.

RIP..Megan and Idris who never actually made it home
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:28 PM
rattysue's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lobley View Post
well i bought a snake from a reputable shop and found out afterwards that it had ri in shop and i was never told this ,also it was a bad feeder and was not told this either ( not a cheap morph either £875)
so if a rep shop sells animals with ri knowingly they should not be allowed to trade anymore

ive learnt the hard way loosing a lot of snakes due to ri because of one irresponsible pet shop and would never buy from a shop who has this in there shop

i think most shop would of had this at some point in there snakes but the ones that have had it should not be sold without buying knowing it has had it ,
very sorry to hear this Lobley...did you take any action against the shop or were you offered any sort of compensation?
Thanks for the reply
__________________
6.5.cats. Morticia, Gomez, Marilyn, Manson, Ty, Mr Bigglesworth, Alice, Lemmy, Angus, Spider and baby Annie
3.0. ferrets. Harry, Georgie and Charlie
too many snakes, lizards and rats to mention....rats as pets not food.

RIP..Megan and Idris who never actually made it home
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2009, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rattysue View Post
Thanks BecciBoo...that's exactly what I was after...I was just wondering though how long does this infection take to materialise?
I've only experienced it once and the snake came to me with an RI, I have no idea how long it had it.

I do know that it can take less than a few hours if your snake is cold and damp, i.e travelling from one place to another.
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rattysue View Post
very sorry to hear this Lobley...did you take any action against the shop or were you offered any sort of compensation?
Thanks for the reply

no i never bothered they would of denied it , and i found out weeks after there heating had gone down causing this (from a good source person who worked in shop)

it was a bad feeder and had ri , week after i got her she came down with it

i would never buy from a shop again , even quaranteen did not stop it spreading . so last year was a bad year , lost £6000 worth of snakes

i am totally clear now and have been for last 6 months , normals seem to have a better amuin system than the morphs and all my normals soon recovered , sods law that and a lot of morphs never , try baytril amikin even had a post mortum which showed nothing had best results with f10 and nebulizer , all my snakes are in vision racks which made the spread worse because soon has one in rack got it , it seemed to spread fast

well this year looking good have 14 royal eggs up to now , learnt from experience

now i am paranoid about it and wont add any more royals to my collection this year
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:55 PM
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Just like RI (Pneumonia) is not caused by cold temps, it is not cured by hot ones.

From Dr. Douglas Maderís text, Reptile Medicine and Surgery (the leading veterinary authoritative text), I will take a few pieces.


First: In regard to temperature in dealing with RI, it mentions this. "Maintenance of the reptile within its Preferred optimal temperature zone (POTZ) is critically important for normal respiratory function and normal immune system activity. Provision of a temperature gradient allows the captive reptile the opportunity to actively select its desired temperature."

This little important thing is ALL it says about temperature because temperatures do not cause RIs. BUT it is important to offer the appropriate ranges for the snake to work within. Donít "cook" it out as it will do no good. Provide your snake with the same thermogradient and it wil have what it needs for its immune system to function properly to fight it. But treatment is needed.

On the table for Prefered Optimal Temperature Ranges for Commonly Housed Captive Reptiles, here is what we have for Ball Pythons.

Preferred Optimum Temperature Range (F) :
Day - Mid 80s (basking area close to 90 is not a bad idea.

"Pneumonia is a common problem in captive reptiles. Often called "respiratory" by lay herpetologists, pneumonia, with its multiple etiologies, can easily be life-threatening if not aggressively managed. Although a number of infectious agents are capable of causing primary pneumonia, many clinical cases are the result of the intermingling on any of several predisposing deficiencies in husbandry, sanitation, and nutrition. A clinical diagnosis of pneumonia should be made on the basis of the sound principles of clinical medicine, history, physical examination, and a variety of ancillary diagnostic techniques. The sole use of apparent clinical signs often results in erroneous diagnostic and subsequent therapeutic measures. Inadequate dietary protein may also act as a nutritional predisposing factor to pneumonia. Proper sanitation of the reptileís environment is critically important in the prevention of pneumonia and lower respiratory tract disease. Because many of the pathogens associated with pneumonia are opportunistic, poor hygiene causes exponential increases in microbial populations that may eventually wear down the most efficient immune systems. Significant ectoparasite loads are often associated with poor environmental hygiene. Snake mites (Ophionyssus natricis) have been implicated as vectors of several infectious causes of pneumonia, such as aeromoniasis."

Something else too is that there are many types of RI, and only one of the more rare types is a result of the secondary effects from low temperature where certain fungi grow more rapidly. This is also not usually a case for ball pythons.

The important part of temperatures in preventing RI comes in where we want the snakes immune system able to fight exposure to pathogens at its best. All other elements in good keeping come into play here too. Proper humidity, cleanliness, nutrition, and developed organ function. For this, we want the snake moving and thermoregulating in itís preferred optimum temperature range and zones. Keeping it hot isnít going to be doing any good, as the snake could stress easily, and it will not thermoregulate appropriately. When (we hope never) the snake is on medication, we do want to elevate temperatures to the higher ends of the range (possibly limiting night drops, and not applying winter temps) because the snake has an added function to work with. The elevated temperatures when the snake is not on medication is not going to prevent anything or do any good...it could more easily cause harm.

Just a bit of food for thought. .


So in summary, if you are worried that the snake has an R.I. just because it was cold, I wouldn't panic too much. A combination of factors such as poor husbandry, poor sanitation, dirty and stagnant water, mites, parasites, stress etc would more likely cause an R.I.
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