to settle an argument - your views.

[The_Real_Moreliaman]

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

Actually, their instructions are very carefully worded.... they suggest that if you have an animal with specific temperature requirements, you use a thermostat.

Funny, ALL the reptiles I keep have specific temperature requirements!

Again i suggest you contact the manufacturer....as you say..carefully worded and specific meaning a more precise control...yes ive kept reptiles that fall under this meaning....but ive kept others where theres a greater level of fluctuating temp requirments.....i keep my reptiles & inverts as near to natural as possible & it isnt the same temperature in the wild everyday.

[The_Real_Moreliaman]

Originally Posted by Caz

It proof that he's been LUCKY, thats all. Plenty of unlucky snakes about each year...

Rubbish luck has nothing to do with it....just because someone doesnt keep their reps the same as you then they are wrong eh !! Youve got alot to learn mate.

And yes...there are plenty of unlucky snakes about every year where the owners dont follow instructions or use common sence.

[Caz]

Originally Posted by The_Real_Moreliaman

Rubbish luck has nothing to do with it....just because someone doesnt keep their reps the same as you then they are wrong eh !! Youve got alot to learn mate.

And yes...there are plenty of unlucky snakes about every year where the owners dont follow instructions or use common sence.

We should all be learning all the time. And remember, it's a fool who doesn't learn by others mistakes..

I'll point you towards my original post that was lost among another argument:

"I've been using mats for over 15 years now. I always stat them. Always have. The surface regularly exceeds 130f. Far too hot for snakes.

In the 90's I had one get wet; snake urinated on it and it started to burn along the stitching. Luckily i was there and turned it off. Removed it from the viv - as an experiment I plugged it back in without a stat. After about 10 mins in caught properly and small flames came from the edge near the terminal block. This taught me never to place one unprotected on the floor of a viv - water/urine in the terminal block could = dead snake/burned down house..

Personally I can only see one excuse for not using stats and thats the cost. Not a good excuse in my honest opinion."

Also:

"If a snakes head is not over the heat source and the body is then it will not register the correct temperature and move away from it. The brain will be too cool to perform this function. Paper on it somewhere - hence the thermal burns in Pythons/Boas."

[Charlottie]

sorry but by just having 25yrs of keeping reptiles doesnt prove that mats can be kept without a stat safely just because you have had no problems doesnt mean that it is still safe!
along with this 25yrs of experiance doesn't mean you cant take advice from fellow keepers! no matter how long you have been keeping them there is still plently of things to learn as well as plently of mistakes to be made not having a stat could be one of these!!

Like id ask for advice from you....someone that handles pokies !!
Thanks but after 25yrs of reptile keeping id say i have enough experince not to ask info from you.

I suggest you turn your comp off and go looking for sparrows & starlings !

[bothrops]

This always happens with the stat debate. Basically you get a few different types of people who all end up arguing about quite specific points on the grey scale of requirement.

1) YOU MUST ALWAYS USE STATS REGARDLESS. THE END. FULL STOP.

2) SOME MATS DON'T REACH EXTREME TEMPERATURES BUT ALL SHOULD BE STATTED FOR SAFETYS SAKE, YOU ALL HAVE FUSES IN YOUR PLUGS RIGHT?

3) IF YOU ARE CAREFULL AND WITH A FEW YEARS EXPERIENCE BEHIND YOU IT IS POSSIBLE TO USE HEAT MATS EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT THE USE OF STAT IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES

4) I'VE NOT USED A STAT FOR X MANY YEARS AND I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM

5) DON'T NEED 'UM - MATE SAYS / IF THEY WERE ESSENTIAL THE PET SHOP WOUILD MAKE YOU GET THEM


6) IF THEY DIE I'LL GET ANOTHER


etc etc



The point is that the stat is a very useful device that maintains the animals environment at a steady temperature (once calibrated) and ALSO acts as a safety device that stops the device overheating if it malfunctions. It saves on electricity and is therefore 'greener' as well!

It is possible to use a mat without a stat (some of my spiders have unstatted mats taped to the back, outside of their enclosures) BUT in the case of mats on the floor of a viv or under a rub, they can overheat and absolutely will overheat if used incorrectly (again a stat will reduce this risk) and I would NEVER recomend the use of an unstated mat.


Morelia is clearly arguing that stats CAN be used provided you take a huge amount of precautions and experience.

Others are arguing that you should never imply that you can 'get away with not using one' because the obvious consequences of getting it wrong.

Personally I'm in the 'yes they can but no they shouldn't' be used without a stat.

Cheers

Andy

[The_Real_Moreliaman]

Originally Posted by Charlottie

sorry but by just having 25yrs of keeping reptiles doesnt prove that mats can be kept without a stat safely just because you have had no problems doesnt mean that it is still safe!
along with this 25yrs of experiance doesn't mean you cant take advice from fellow keepers! no matter how long you have been keeping them there is still plently of things to learn as well as plently of mistakes to be made not having a stat could be one of these!!

Caz i dont put heatmatts inside vivs so this problem wouldnt happen.

Charlottie im on about taking advice from someone like spit who prefers to name call. There are many people i know with far more experince than myself....i'm happy to take my advice from them anytime.

[kelboy]

I'm gonna go ahead and quote the manufacturers, "if used correctly". In my eyes, using any heat source correctly, involves using a thermostat! As said above, only the animal's head will register the temperature, and the head can be a LONG way away from the source

[The_Real_Moreliaman]

Thankyou andy....i think that sums this debate up exactly.

[elliot ness]

Originally Posted by The_Real_Moreliaman

Thankyou andy....i think that sums this debate up exactly.

It does.....you need a stat unless you have 150 years experience like you

[C4VEMAN-5AM]

Originally Posted by The_Real_Moreliaman

Caz i dont put heatmatts inside vivs so this problem wouldnt happen.

Charlottie im on about taking advice from someone like spit who prefers to name call. There are many people i know with far more experince than myself....i'm happy to take my advice from them anytime.

True true.

now try and imagine newbies who start keeping for the first time, whos advice will they go for, a bunch of strangers on a forum, or experienced people they know personally.