My experience with Inclusion Body Disease (IBD)

[cbreakenridge]

I am terribly sorry for your loss.. I hope you are OK, she looked like a lovely snake.
And as everyone has said, thank you for taking the time to write all of this, its a long read, but one worth reading and learning.
Its just a shame you had to learn about it the hard way

R.I.P little Clementine

[Montage_Morphs]

Originally Posted by oakelm

Sorry to hear about the little one, never nice to hear of stories like this. But more of a general question as I dont know the size of your collection or how close you are to them. Did you consider having all potential affected or carrier snakes pts? And why did you not and maybe only put a few very special snakes through biopsies? Curious more than anything as when I had larger boas I always said to myself no matter what money would be going down the drain I would start a fresh if it ever happened to me. Thankfully never had to make such a decision but sure thought about it. But a different thing actually being in the situation.

I have 20 snakes. 4 Candoia carinata, 2 Candoia paulsoni, 2 Candoia tasmai, 1 Corn Isle boa, 1 BRB, 1 ATB, 1 chondro, 1 black milk, 2 spotted pythons and 5 corn snakes. I am very attached to my pets. They were bought as pets and not part of a breeding scheme, however it was my intention to breed some pairs, particuarly the candoia as they are such a captive bred rarity and I felt the desire to work with such a wonderful genus of minunderstood and underrated boas. I cannot breed any of them now. The two gravid carinata females have been gravid for 8 months now so I will have to keep all their offspring.

As I wrote in my thread I do not think it is necessary to euthanise ALL my snakes at the moment. I adore my animals, and if they can live long and healthy lives by never showing the disease then who am I to take it from them? They will never be sold or bred or paraded around to friends or outside etc. The are simply my animals that I enjoy.

I decided only to test 3 snakes due to the fact that after 3 negative blood tests from the boas in the closest proximity to clementine testing negative, I realised I would never know if they were positive or not. Blood testing is a bit of a waste of time because a negative result can still be a positive result.

I am treating all my snakes as potentially infected, so until they start showing signs or symotoms then I am happy to take care of them to the best possible standard. If any show even the slightest sign or symtom of IBD I will have them euthanised in a heart beat.

[Gaboon]

Great thread!! I hope your Pythons remain well. Perhaps we should keep our Pythons as far away from our Colubrids and Boas as possible?

[Montage_Morphs]

Originally Posted by Gaboon

Great thread!! I hope your Pythons remain well. Perhaps we should keep our Pythons as far away from our Colubrids and Boas?

Perhaps it should be boas away from everything else? Or should it be colubrids away from everything? Or just everything away from everything. Because both can harbour the disease. It's ONLY pythons that succumb to it generally within 2-4 weeks. They go down hill extremely fast.

I read an article of one keeper in America who used pythons as indicators of IBD in their boa collection. They kept a royal python in the same viv as boas, and within 4 weeks all the pythons were dead from IBD.

Again this is an extreme view on the subject. But if I ever do build up a snake collection again once all my current ones are dead and burried, I will be thinking very seriously about the length of time I quarantine, which snakes go in which rooms nevermind which racks etc. It's something to think about in great depth, but you could drive your self crazy!

[Pauline]

It must have cost you dear to write that, I know how much you loved her. Let's hope all your others live to a ripe old age.

[Montage_Morphs]

Originally Posted by Pauline

It must have cost you dear to write that, I know how much you loved her. Let's hope all your others live to a ripe old age.

It was just under 3 hours. Over 2000 words. Nothing I am not used to with the amount of report typing I have to do for my degree.

But thank you Pauline. I hope so too. That would be the best possible outcome from this whole situation.

[Gaboon]

Originally Posted by Montage_Morphs

Perhaps it should be boas away from everything else? Or should it be colubrids away from everything? Or just everything away from everything. Because both can harbour the disease. It's ONLY pythons that succumb to it generally within 2-4 weeks. They go down hill extremely fast.

I read an article of one keeper in America who used pythons as indicators of IBD in their boa collection. They kept a royal python in the same viv as boas, and within 4 weeks all the pythons were dead from IBD.

I thought only Boas would harbour it but if Colubrids can also I am tempted to segregate them as they are a potentially fatal threat to my Pythons.

Thats a very worrying case you mention. I havent read past the basics on this, is it worse in the US or Europe (ie apart from the UK)?

[Montage_Morphs]

Originally Posted by Gaboon

I thought only Boas would harbour it but if Colubrids can also I am tempted to segregate them as a danger to my Pythons.

Thats a very worrying case you mention. I havent read past the basics on this, is it worse in the US or Europe (ie apart from the UK)?

I mentioned in the thread about the fact colubrids can carry the disease but never succumb to it. Therefore if a mite sucks the blood from an infected colubrid that mite can then pass it on to whatever snakes are in the same facility...

IBD is a big taboo thing in America. I am not sure of the cases in the UK, although I doubt many people would be wanting to publicly admit they have a deadly disease in thier collection... Especially not when it could concern high end boids and breeding stock...

[Gaboon]

Originally Posted by Montage_Morphs

I mentioned in the thread about the fact colubrids can carry the disease but never succumb to it. Therefore if a mite sucks the blood from an infected colubrid that mite can then pass it on to whatever snakes are in the same facility...

IBD is a big taboo thing in America. I am not sure of the cases in the UK, although I doubt many people would be wanting to publicly admit they have a deadly disease in thier collection... Especially not when it could concern high end boids and breeding stock...

It boils down separating the asymptomatic and symptomatic families, good hygiene and immediate irradiation of any mites.

I had mites in my collection last year! I was utterly shocked as in nearly 15 yrs I had never had any health problems what so ever. I think I picked them up from the show I had been to about a week before spotting them.

I dont go to many shows but wonder what (if any) measures are in place to minimise the spread of the little vectors?

[oakelm]

Originally Posted by Montage_Morphs

I have 20 snakes. 4 Candoia carinata, 2 Candoia paulsoni, 2 Candoia tasmai, 1 Corn Isle boa, 1 BRB, 1 ATB, 1 chondro, 1 black milk, 2 spotted pythons and 5 corn snakes. I am very attached to my pets. They were bought as pets and not part of a breeding scheme, however it was my intention to breed some pairs, particuarly the candoia as they are such a captive bred rarity and I felt the desire to work with such a wonderful genus of minunderstood and underrated boas. I cannot breed any of them now. The two gravid carinata females have been gravid for 8 months now so I will have to keep all their offspring.

As I wrote in my thread I do not think it is necessary to euthanise ALL my snakes at the moment. I adore my animals, and if they can live long and healthy lives by never showing the disease then who am I to take it from them? They will never be sold or bred or paraded around to friends or outside etc. The are simply my animals that I enjoy.

I decided only to test 3 snakes due to the fact that after 3 negative blood tests from the boas in the closest proximity to clementine testing negative, I realised I would never know if they were positive or not. Blood testing is a bit of a waste of time because a negative result can still be a positive result.

I am treating all my snakes as potentially infected, so until they start showing signs or symotoms then I am happy to take care of them to the best possible standard. If any show even the slightest sign or symtom of IBD I will have them euthanised in a heart beat.

Thanks for your response as I was simply curious, I know what I would plan to do but what I could ever face doing is another matter entirely, I really do hope the rest of your collection dont ever come down with any symptoms and best of luck with all the little ones.