I now hate RUBS (Really Useful Boxes)

[bladeblaster]

Originally Posted by andybe18

Why?
Don't just make statements and then don't back them up

I am astounded on a reptile forum the current arguement seems to be they are not mammals os it doesn't matter!

Why, becuase you have compared your needs as a human to that of a snake, do I really need to elaborate?

[joeyboy]

Originally Posted by dartagnangreg

Every retic keeper better go get some 20ft vivs!

Ideally yes, just as a zoo has a large enclosure for a large animal. I'd say if you can't give it the space don't keep it, but obviously that's not the way things work.

[cokacola]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and my opinion happens to be very much different to that of the original poster

The key to understanding any animal behaviour/welfare problem is not to look at the animal as if it were yourself, but to look at it as the species that it is and remember where it comes from. Would I like to live in a nice snug, dark plastic box? No I wouldn't. But then I don't normally spend my life in a dark rodent burrow, sat in a pile of leaf litter or under a rock.

Racks are the best thing since sliced bread as far as I'm concerned. I have kept snakes in vivariums, and I have kept snakes in racks. If the snakes preferred the vivariums, then why do they in many cases feed so much better in plastic boxes?

The truth is that a snake is a snake, it doesn't get bored just because there is no plastic plant to look at/play in. You must have seen documentaries where a python sits in the same spot for days on end and waits for prey to come to it. It never gets bored.

A green tree python stays in the same position and wiggles it's tail, the caudal luring will hopefully eventually entice a prey item.

There is a nice segment on life in cold blood which shows a timber rattlesnake. Again, it finds it's rodent pathway by scent, then sits and waits.

It's exactly the same in a rack for many species, the food comes to the snake, is "ambushed", and the snake then hides until the food is digested, so that it's "safe from predators". The tub should still allow movement, the snake should be free to explore it's tub, but otherwise it's the perfect little hide out. Success with many popular species, like ball pythons, is all about security. This is why racks work so well for those species.

In theory, a tub can offer the same amount of floor space, or even height as a vivarium, and then you can have hides within the tub.

Is it cruel to not provide a hide in a rack? Nope. A hide just takes up space. If the animal needs a hide, then it should be provided with one. But otherwise, the tub itself is a hide, and if using newspaper as a substrate - the snake can hide under the paper too.

In my opinion, racks are often a much better option than vivs, but there are also times when vivariums are more suitable, especially with larger species. The key is to consider each case seperately, and not rule out either vivariums or racks "in general". A snake is a snake. If it's got food, security and warmth - then it's happy. For many popular species, a tub in a rack provides everything it needs.

[andybe18]

Originally Posted by Kerriebaby

do you think that given the choice the snake would choose to be in captivity at all? they arent dogs you know!

??????????????????????????

Er - dog's don't choice to be pets either

It's the choice to move if it wants to

[moodyblue1969]

just a quick thought to lighten this thread up.maybe i need a bigger house,i have a warm hide (sitting room) i have a cool hide (bedroom) thank god ive got a computer for mental stimulation otherwise my OH would be worn out

[bladeblaster]

Originally Posted by joeyboy

damn it can you ban yourself from a thread? I'm only doing this to wind up loose ends.

Nah it wasn't you or I'd have said. It's just...the attitudes of some people on this sub-forum trump anywhere else. I'd use the phrase get off your high horse(not to you), but it doesn't apply. It's more then arrogance, in fact it's not arrogance by definition I suppose as it's probably not entirely intentional, it's the inability to consider another viewpoint at all.

I am happy to consider all relevant view points, I just haven't heard one from the RUB hating fraternity yet.

[dartagnangreg]

Originally Posted by andybe18

Why?
Don't just make statements and then don't back them up

I am astounded on a reptile forum the current arguement seems to be they are not mammals os it doesn't matter!

The argument isn't that it doesn't matter. It's the fact people are talking about their snakes as if they are mammals, showing a complete lack of understanding of the animals they keep. Gothgirl's original argument was that snakes need enrichment and visually pretty vivariums to be happy.

[Lisasgeckonursery]

Although you mean well and have admitted that RUBs have their place in reptile keeping (ie when the right decor,space etc is in place) your title and the generalisation of RUBs being bad is just giving the Animal rights squad even more excuse to attempt to ban the hobby.
As some have said, those pics you have are probably of RUBs with the decor removed for photos.
In fighting doesn't help, it just spurrs on the haters.

[joeyboy]

Originally Posted by bladeblaster

Why, becuase you have compared your needs as a human to that of a snake, do I really need to elaborate?

hardly. As another member said when they get their snakes out they don't run to a corner and curl up, they explore the environment. Royals might like to spend a lot of time hiding but I assume in the wild they leave their add and are active at some point? So at least giving them the space to do that to an extent would be a good thing I'd have thought. Give it a big enough hide in the viv, then give it extra room to have a mosey round when it wants.

But your probably right, maybe they don't have the capacity to "care" about it.

Though I would like some links to articles on the subject. We always throw an article in when we debate tarantula care, so are there any papers on how these snakes behave and so justifying a small enclosure?

[mask-of-sanity]

well just read the whole thread.........my royal was kept in a rub and ate no problem, i put him in a viv and he stopped..so he went back in a rub and ate no problem............just in case it was coincedence(sp) i have tried again and the little blighter has again stopped feeding despite having a nice viv with all the decor ect ect .......tonight he will be going back in his rub...........you may say well its a royal and they stop eating ......not this one, he took me weeks as a baby to get him to feed and only stopped when i put him in a viv 18 months later

he will have 2 hides and a water bowl and thats it