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Old 23-02-2010, 03:05 PM
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Default Bringing stuff back from Hamm

Does anyone who has done it before know what the deal is with bringing animals back from the Hamm show? Are there any restrictions apart from the obvious DWA/CITES paperwork? Is it likely that our purchases will be thoroughly inspected as we come back by customs or are we more likely to just get on the train and get off the train at the other end no questions asked?

Never driven across to europe before so I have no idea what to expect.
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Old 23-02-2010, 03:16 PM
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If you buy any CITES stuff get the paper work. ie a declaration stating they were captive bred for CITES II and CITES I you need the full works.
DWA stuff you you do not need any paperwork to bring in but once you have brought it in you have two days grace to get it afaik.

The only place you would be likely to be checked is at the chanel crossing and this does not always happen either, but it is better to play safe than be sorry.
btw. the customs guys are not as a rule clued up as to what species are CITES/DWA and what are not, so if you do get pulled up it helps alot if you sound like you Know what you are talking about.
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Old 23-02-2010, 03:22 PM
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I'm pretty sure the above is all right. The only main restriction that i know of is mammals, which would have to go into quarantine before they're allowed into the country officially. To be on the safe side i would try and get receipts for everything you buy regardless of it being CITIES.
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Old 23-02-2010, 04:02 PM
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Thanks guys. I'm not intending to bring back anything CITES/DWA just wondering if I'm going to get given a load of jip for having a couple of poly boxes full of spiders by perplexed customs people.

I'll make sure all of the boxes are labelled with what species they are though, just in case.

"No sir, that's definitely not Phoneutria sp, that's Cupiennius sp, any fool can see that! Here, let me demonstrate by holding it..."
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Old 23-02-2010, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakakadave View Post
"No sir, that's definitely not Phoneutria sp, that's Cupiennius sp, any fool can see that! Here, let me demonstrate by holding it..."
Drop the "fool" from the convo and they would probably buy it, but you would not be in the wrong unless you did not pass them off to a DWAL/PSL holder within 48 hours until the law is changed.
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Old 23-02-2010, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakakadave View Post
Thanks guys. I'm not intending to bring back anything CITES/DWA just wondering if I'm going to get given a load of jip for having a couple of poly boxes full of spiders by perplexed customs people.

I'll make sure all of the boxes are labelled with what species they are though, just in case.

"No sir, that's definitely not Phoneutria sp, that's Cupiennius sp, any fool can see that! Here, let me demonstrate by holding it..."
This is something I stumbled across the other day whilst researching the importation of inverts. If I was doing what your planning I would follow this as a guideline with regards to labelling etc

Quote:
1.General welfare 1.1Animals should have priority over merchandise. 1.2Only animals in good health should be transported. 1.3Animals should not be sedated. 1.4Animals should be left undisturbed during transport. 1.5No feeding should be necessary during transport. 1.6To avoid cross-infection, and for health and hygiene reasons, human contact with animals should be avoided. Should it be necessary, in an emergency, to handle them, then the hands should be thoroughly washed immediately afterwards, as the skins of some species are toxic. 1.7Animals should not be housed near foodstuffs. 1.8No animal should be transported with radioactive material or other substances dangerous to health. 1.9Containers should be secured to the aircraft, rail wagon, lorry or ship to avoid any possible movement, and should at all times be maintained in a horizontal position. 2.Advance arrangements for transport 2.1All possible precautions should be taken in advance to ensure that animals are kept within the temperature range stated on the labelling. This would necessitate planning their movement with due regard to the climatic conditions natural to them, and to the conditions prevailing at their final destination, and also those that will be encountered during transport. Particular attention should be paid to the facilities at any intermediate stops at airports, etc. 2.2Any bags or other packing material should be destroyed after use; when containers are to be re-used they should be thoroughly cleaned and disinfected before and after use. 2.3The estimated time of arrival should be notified in advance to the consignee, and also the route of the consignment. Adequate arrangements for its prompt collection at the final destination, and for any necessary movement at transit points, should be made in advance. 2.4Should any delay in collection be anticipated, then advance arrangements should be made for the housing of the animals. 2.5Cash on delivery facilities should not be used. 3.Container 3.1The container should be constructed of wood, or material of similar strength, and should be strong enough to house the animals, and to withstand the handling involved during transport.
3.2The container may comprise a number of separate compartments, provided that the overall size is such that it may be handled without difficulty. In some cases, polythene bags can be used. 3.3There should be an inner container constructed of high density expanded polystyrene, in order to provide the necessary heat insulation, and lined with plastic or metal, where necessary. 3.4The inner container should have a well fitting lid provided with an adequate number and size of ventilation holes. 3.5The outer container should be so designed that there is a free flow of air to the inner container. 3.6As access to the animals is not normally necessary, the outer container should be securely banded or taped. 4.Packing 4.1Animals should be packed in sphagnum moss, or foam chippings, dampened if appropriate. 4.2Undue overcrowding of the animals should be avoided. 5.Labelling and documentation Durable, waterproof labels should be provided as follows: 5.1"LIVE ANIMALS – DO NOT TIP", "TOXIC" or "POISONOUS" where applicable, on all sides and top. 5.2"THIS WAY UP", with arrows indicating the top, on all sides. 5.3Consignor's and consignee's name, address and telephone number. Box numbers should not be used as the sole address. 5.4Detailed list of contents: number of animals; scientific name and common names used in the exporting and importing countries; whether fresh or saltwater species. 5.5Temperature range required. 5.6Date on which amphibians were packed for transport. 5.7Official stamp of carrier showing date of his receipt of consignment. Durable, waterproof means of containing the following documents and other essential information should be firmly attached to the container: 5.8Duplicate of consignor's and consignee's name, address and telephone number. 5.9Duplicate list of contents as in 5.4. 5.10Copies of relevant export and import licences. 5.11Copy of valid health certificate issued in accordance with the requirements of the importing country. 5.12Duplicate information regarding temperature range required.
Hope this is a help to you.

Those which are CITES listed are as follows;

Tarantulas: Aphonopelma albiceps, Aphonopelma pallidum, Brachypelma spp.

Scorpions: Pandinus dictator, Pandinus gambiensis, Pandinus imperator (includes synonyms Pandinus africanus and Heterometrus roeseli)
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Old 23-02-2010, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Oderus View Post
Drop the "fool" from the convo and they would probably buy it, but you would not be in the wrong unless you did not pass them off to a DWAL/PSL holder within 48 hours until the law is changed.
LOL just to be absolutely clear I genuinely have no intention of bringing back anything hot. Certainly not Phoneutria! No thank you very much!

However, I am confused. Are you saying that if they were to accept that as in this example, that a Phoneutria were a Cupiennius then theoretically it would be home and dry. But, if they were to identify anything as DWA species then I would have 48 hours grace to get them into the hands of someone who does have a DWA licence?
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Old 23-02-2010, 04:20 PM
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So long as you did not give them any ID to follow you up on I guess not saying that you would do that of course.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldpoodle
Even sticky the extreamly stick like stick insect has the instinct to survive and will fight back as best it can.
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Old 23-02-2010, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Oderus View Post
So long as you did not give them any ID to follow you up on I guess not saying that you would do that of course.
but is it really true you have 48 hours to get it into the custody of a DWA holder? I'm astonished that they wouldn't just confiscate it immediately.
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Old 24-02-2010, 07:48 PM
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Default Hamm show

Talking of the Hamm show can anyone tell me when it is this year/2010. Thanks in advance
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