Hybridization in Tarantulas

[mcluskyisms]

This is just a few of my thoughts on different things Ive read, and I'm hoping to start off a discussion on here as this is a general topic of interest to me and hopefully others also, and Id also like to see how other enthusiasts feel about such topics.

After reading many things in books and online I was wondering what the general view on hybridization in tarantulas is, Although, I myself am sitting on the fence on this issue as I think it has its pro's and con's obvioulsy these things do indeed happen from time to time naturally in the wild, but who are we to play the role of god with any creature on this earth?

To many, its unethical to say the least, and there are many reports of hobbyists losing many of their tarantulas trying to accomplish such a task, some say the female can smell a different breed from her own or maybe the males mating tapping code seems a little bit suspect, therefore the mature female may not be so susceptible to a foreign males advances and see the male as prey.

Although, Ive never tried a breeding program myself, after extensive reading on such matters breeding in itself, even in the same species breeding programs it seems can be very unrewarding with many mature males falling foul of the female and getting munched (either before or after insertion) but this is nature and its a risk every breeder will have to undergo from time to time if he or she wants to breed tarantuls.

Although baring all the above information in mind, many have still tried to hybridize tarantulas. Apparently some of which were successful (Turbang 1993) apparently successfully crossbred Ceratogyrus Brachycephalus with Ceratogyrus Darlingi and Brachypelma Smithi with Brachypelma Emilia,
Where as other documented reports of hybridization have been unsuccessful (McKee 1986) who tried crossbreeding Brachypelma Auratum with Brachypelma Smithi on several occasions, although the tarantulas did copulate and eggs were laid, they were in fact infertile.

So baring all of this information in mind, I myself strongly believe that hybridization in the wild is fine, I firmly think that many of the tarantulas in today's market are in fact natural hybrids that have occurred in the wild many many years ago such as many of the Poecilotheria genus and many of the Avicularia genus, But I don't know where I stand on the practice of hybridization at the hands of humans, for what ever reasons.

On a leaving note Id like to welcome others thoughts and ideas on hybridization and id also like to share one of my thoughts, even as humans coming from many different races have we not been hybridized to a certain extent ourselves in the crossbreeding of different races of people into what we are now today? Is natural evolution or hybridization's of anything living something to fear or something to be embraced?

Many Thanks,

Chris

[Mutley.100]

Originally Posted by mcluskyisms

On a leaving note Id like to welcome others thoughts and ideas on hybridization and id also like to share one of my thoughts, even as humans have we not been hybridized to a certain extent ourselves? into what we are now today and is natural evolution something to fear or something to be embraced?

Many Thanks,

Chris

I'm curious as to what you think we're a hybrid of ?

As for intentionally hybridising T's I can't think of a good reason why anyone'd do it as the outcome would be of questionable worth outside of pure scientific curiosity .

[mcluskyisms]

Originally Posted by Mutley.100

I'm curious as to what you think we're a hybrid of ?

As for intentionally hybridising T's I can't think of a good reason why anyone'd do it as the outcome would be of questionable worth outside of pure scientific curiosity .

Well do you not think we that we humans evolved from the ape over thousands of years, or do you actually believe in Adam and Eve????

[Mutley.100]

Originally Posted by mcluskyisms

Well do you not think we that we humans evolved from the ape over thousands of years, or do you actually believe in Adam and Eve????

Evolution is nothing to do with hybridising .

My definitions of

Evolution = The gradual changing of a species to take advantage of one's environment .
Hybridising = The mixing of 2 distinct species .

[mcluskyisms]

[QUOTE=Mutley.100;5859863]I'm curious as to what you think we're a hybrid of ?

Sorry mate, you are entirely correct, Ive changed it to mean what I meant sorry for any confusion but my fiance also just pointed out the same mistake

[Baldpoodle]

To many, its unethical to say the least, and there are many reports of hobbyists losing many of their tarantulas trying to accomplish such a task,

are there?

So baring all of this information in mind, I myself strongly believe that hybridization in the wild is fine,

well if you never thought it was fine there isn't anything you could do about it anyway is there lol.

Honestly in the hobby I don't really care. People always use the same old arguement about how it cocks up the taxonomy etc. but the truth is it shouldn't do, because no decent taxonomist uses hobby material for the reclassification and describing of spiders.

[Hedgewitch]

A great many spiders will be incapable of properly interbreeding due to the nature of the whole embolus-spermatecae matching thing.

I'm sure some pairings may work, only in one direction though.

[gothling]

Originally Posted by Mutley.100

Evolution is nothing to do with hybridising .

My definitions of

Evolution = The gradual changing of a species to take advantage of one's environment .
Hybridising = The mixing of 2 distinct species .

it does a lot actually, they have found that you get splits and then crosses that breed out some of the flaws caused by inbreeding along a single line. look up genetic origin work they've been doing on jellyfish and some bacterias. they were having problems pinning down an 'adam' and 'eve' origin for some animals and the only way you can account for this is cross breeding. there was a massive article on it in new scientist a few months back.

[gothling]

Originally Posted by Mutley.100

Evolution is nothing to do with hybridising .

My definitions of

Evolution = The gradual changing of a species to take advantage of one's environment .
Hybridising = The mixing of 2 distinct species .

evolution is change that springs up a new species, if you hybridize two you can create a genetically individual sub species of both and is therefore classed as evolution through changes that advance and adapt an animal in a way that makes it more successful in it's environment. these will be either healthier and meet and breed etc or die out. so humans at some point be it when we were monkeys or star fish very well may have breed with similar species to become better for the places they lived.

[gothling]

"This particular form of sexual selection relies on females being able to distinguish between differently coloured males. But as pollution clouds the waters of Africa's great lakes, cichlids are losing this ability. In the murky waters, hybridisation is becoming increasingly common, and because cichlid species are evolutionarily close, they often produce viable hybrid offspring. Surprisingly, some biologists now think that hybridisation might actually be a creative process, churning out new species, and it has probably happened naturally in Lake Victoria many times in the past. I am beginning to suspect that hybridisation may be a significant factor in some of the evolutionary explosions we call adaptive radiations.
In theory, we can test whether species are the product of parallel evolution, sexual selection or hybridisation by looking for "speciation genes" - genes that are responsible for preventing interbreeding. As more and more genomes are sequenced, biologists eagerly anticipate finding such genes. Also, there is a big push to look at differences in the way genes are expressed. These are nice ideas, but I don't think we know enough about which genes are involved in speciation to give us a realistic chance of finding them by such methods. We would do better to use careful Mendel-style crossing experiments to find out if speciation can really be caused by a single gene or a pair of genes, like a male courtship signal and a female preference for that signal. I think most people would bet against this being common. But then, most studies are carried out on relatively old pairs of species that are likely to have evolved lots of other differences following speciation. So, we need to look at species that have recently diverged and can still be crossed in the lab to give fertile hybrids. My old friends the cichlids look like the perfect candidates."
George Turner is an evolutionary biologist and behavioural ecologist at the University of Hull, UK.