open discusion on live foods

Gaboon · #1 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 02:46 AM

just wanted a bit of a discussion on the subject of live feeding.. i have never live fed any of my snakes however i do not disagree with it. i have though live fed my lizards i had in the past and i see nothing wrong with that..

what’s the real difference?

consider that it is a natural occurence and actually it inriches the lives of the animal reptile or otherwise

also i dont know how vertabrate pray are killed for the exitic pet trade, does any one know? would it happen to be a form of sufication?

I have attached a poll too but please give your reasons or your vote as im really interested in the ethics and peoples aproach to the subject.

thanks

darkdan99 · #2 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 03:09 AM

i voted that i think my pets would get enrichment etc, because i think they would! it would allow more natural behavour, and some "entertainment"(forwant of a better word) for the reptile. but you wouldnt enrich your childs life, by letting it catch and kill its own food, would you?

i also think that live feeding is a cruel way for the prey to go, and would never do it.

i was going to breed mice, and got the setup ect, but when it came to buying the mice, seeing the look on their cute lil faces let me know that theres no way on earth i could kill them, humainly or otherwise.

i somtimes feel a little guilty feeding live crix, or locust, (dispite my angry posts, i will feed mealworms in the future, but the will be be-headed first, and i dont have any now anyway), but i dont know, really, because i ENJOY watching my WD catch and eat them, i guess i see it as "thats life" for the crix.

but in rodents (being a rat keeper) i see cuteness, and adoralble eyes, and dont wat to see them die.

its interesting to note that i feel no emotion over the mice and rats in the freezer, not sure why, guess its becasue they are food, in the same way i eat cute piggies and lambs, but coulddnt kill one, for food or otherwise.

thats my opinion.

Gaboon · #3 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 03:19 AM

i agree there is an innate feeling of compassion for rodents but not so for insects but could it be that we are being selfish? we are after all dis regerding the preditors primery instinct after all. i do feel the same fondness for live mice which i dont for frozon ones however i know there is no real diffarents

Athravan · #4 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 11:16 AM

Doesn't it also come down to the fact that almost all snakes will eat defrost pre-killed, whereas most lizards will simply not eat insects that are dead?

Also - it's a cricket, or a mealworm - are you afraid to step on an ant when you're out? Do you cry if you accidentally crush a snail? Or flick away a wasp? Swat a fly in the house? They're insects. Many people do not feel the same way about killing a mammal.

Mice, rats, rabbits etc. are also kept as pets and are domesticated, can show fear and pain and also affection a lot more than insects. They can have personalities, which we mostly don't attribute to insects. A mouse when put in a tank with a snake would probably cower in fear, the locusts I put in with my lizards if not immediately munched are so stupid that they walk up and sit on the lizards head - I'm sure many people have seen that, they're just asking to be eaten

!

If my lizards would eat dead insects and I could buy them dead (and also ensure that they were fed well before being killed) then I would, it would be much more convenient that's for sure!

Gaboon · #5 (**permalink**) 04-02-2007, 04:44 PM

come on any more pionts....

Issa · #6 (**permalink**) 04-02-2007, 04:52 PM

I wouldn't actually go with any of the options on the poll because while I wouldn't feed live generally (more out of concern for the snake than the rat if I'm being totally honest) I certainly would live-feed if I any of my babies stopped eating for a long period of time and I'd tried all other possibilitys.

tazzyasb · #7 (**permalink**) 04-02-2007, 04:54 PM

Hmmm interesting question!

As for feeding crickets ect to my BD don't care at all.

As for feeding my snakes live. I don't for various reasons. It is cruel the mouse/rat will know its in danger. This combined with pictures I have seen of what can happen if the mouse/rat attacks the snake is not a road I want to go down. However if I had a non feeder who I had tried everything with including fresh killed I would feed live to try and get it feeding so break the cycle of assist feeding.

I currently breed my own mice for food and have no porblems now with killing them but i did find it hard at first.

Realised something the other day. I have stopped seeing little furry things as cute and now see them as food. In fact I got wrong last week cos I was in pets at home and lent over into the rabbit and guinee pis enclosure and said I know some snakes that would like to eat you. Horrible I know but true

darkdan99 · #8 (**permalink**) 04-02-2007, 07:17 PM

i disagree with the comments regarding a mouse cowering, or knowing it is in danger, in most cases they approch the snake, being inquisitive and get bit head on, the others that i have seen, show the mouse running by and the snake attacking from the side. i havent actually seen a cornered mouse cower, before being eaten (this isnt to say it doesnt happen, just i havent seen it, as said)

and crickets and locusts often sence the danger, and jump away, and are chased, they jump more, and then are caught.
i think its is more to do with the domestication of the animals.

i'd openly admit, that although i love my reps to bits, i am closer the cat, and rats.

this is becasue they are my friends, rather than animals that tolerate me.

and another point, is when crix are eaten, they die nearly instantly, in the powerful jaws. in constrictors, they are suffocated in a period of minutes, you see the suffering, and the struggle, before it gives up.

like the lion on the back of the zebra.

and the croc with the wielderbeast.

the zebra struggles, and you feel for it, when watching animal planet, but the beast dies quickly, most of the time, and we think "wow".

also, i'd have less of a problem live feeding venomous snakes, as there is a quick pain, then it dies, etc. so it doesnt suffer as much.

scarlettvegetable · #9 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 03:20 AM

Not this again lol.

I haven't voted as there isn't an option for 'Have and will again if necessary with no guilty conscience as it is what is necessary to keep my animals healthy as I am solely responsible for them and will do anything in my power to keep them in my care alive and healthy'

Morelia Matt · #10 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issa

I wouldn't actually go with any of the options on the poll because while I wouldn't feed live generally (more out of concern for the snake than the rat if I'm being totally honest) I certainly would live-feed if I any of my babies stopped eating for a long period of time and I'd tried all other possibilitys.

exactly what i was going to say.

View Poll Results: what would you most agree with?
i think feeding live inverts is fine but vert pray should not be offered live its cruel	3	23.08%
i feel bad feeding live invert pray but its nature whos to argue?	0	0%
i would never offer live vert pray through fear it might fight back	0	0%
i think my pet would be enriched by live vertabrate feeding its nature	7	53.85%
dont care	3	23.08%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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