just browsing another forum and it said theres new legislation coming in to force soon,im not very clued up on it but it was along the lines of class b listed animals rainbow boas,carpet pythons etc,if you cannot prove the parents were legally imported of the offspring you keep,you can face up to 10 years prison.its not up to the shop,its down to the keeper,has any 1 else heard of it,im not sure wether i can post a link to the other forum due to forum rules

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0.1.0 biak green tree python
1.1.0 dendro azureus
0.0.2 dendro leucomelas

I think it'll be fine for you to post the link.. its more for the information than publicising the other forum! I havent heard about this one.. would be interested to have a proper look at the proposal.

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0.1.0 biak green tree python
1.1.0 dendro azureus
0.0.2 dendro leucomelas

Are you worried that something you have was imported illegally? Its just to stop illegal imports, which seems reasonable enough to me. Your only going to be found guilty under this act if u know u are going to buy something thats not legally imported. If you dont realise its illegally imported then u wont have the neccessary mens rea and u wont be guilty of it. I wouldnt get so worried about it, i dont think anyone on the forum deals with people like that anyway.

And just to point out, this law u linked has been in practice for 2 years, its an amendment of an older law that wasnt covering the problem of illegal importations.

I dont see why people on livefoods found this act disappointing. Why you wouldnt want such a law in place i do not know. Do people want to buy illegally imported animals? If you have no idea you have bought an illegally imported animal you wont be found guilty of anything under this act, its only if u are aware that its available through a criminal act.

Here is the link to the proper bill that was actually legislated in july 2005 so then u can see it wasnt intending to put limits to the decent reptile keepers, but just to stop illegal imports. The Control of Trade in Endangered Species (Enforcement) (Amendment) Regulations 2005 its a very good bill and it went through the process of legislation very fast. I think its fair to say its probably done a very good job for the reptile world rather than being a bad thing

lol i didnt notice the date as it was up top on the forum page i thought it was new lol every rep ive got is captive bred,i wont buy wc or cf let alone illegal

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0.1.0 biak green tree python
1.1.0 dendro azureus
0.0.2 dendro leucomelas

I have a wc lizard and presumably CF boscs. I presume they arent illegal because they are from what i think of as reputable suppliers that many pet shops use, though because i cant be sure of that, if the supplier was found to be guilty of illegally importing, i wouldnt be guilty of anything unless i knew that they were illegally imported.

Basically, unless you know you are dealing with illegal importers, or even have a suspicion of it, you shouldnt buy anything from them as u can also be prosecuted. If you have no idea, you wont be found guilty of anything.

I think what they are worried about is whether the burden of proof is on them to prove an animal is legal (difficult in the case of private/show/internet sales), or on the authorities to prove it was imported illegally, and whether their animals can be impounded whilst investigations are made.

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My Scaley Little Clan2.3.0 Royal Pythons1.0.0 Bearded Dragon1.2.0 BCI0.1.0 BCC x BCI0.0.1 Ackie1.0.0 Hoggie

Ok firstly... nothing has come of these regs in terms of not being able to keep Annex B species. It may do yet, but it seems to have been dropped for now in favour of pushing for more changes to the AWB.

Blazey unfortunately you are absolutely incorrect in thinking that you would be protected because you bought from " a reputable source" or you "werent aware they were brought in illegally".
Under this law you woud have no protection using these defences. The main problem with this act is that it would be worded to state YOU (not your suppplier or anyone else) would have to prove the animals were imported legally. Ignorance is NOT a defence (this has also been brought into the new animal welfare bill too!)
You cannot possibly prove Annex B animals are legally imported even if they are because DEFRA doesnt issue paperwork for ANY annex B animals not leaving the EU. All subsequent generations of these animals would also be considered under COTES regs as being illegal and could be confiscated.

So you see.. it makes no difference whether the animals are legally obtained or not, in the eyes of customs and excise theyre not legal because you dont have paperwork (because defra dont issue it!) and as such they can be seized.

Like I say this hasnt come through (the legislation you linked to isnt the same as what was discussed on the livefoods thread) and I would be surprised if it did now considering the issues with regards to human rights and the current concentration on animal welfare and transport regulations.

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It clearly states that if you have proof you asked the supplier if the animal was legal and they sign some form of paperwork that it was legal then you would not be held liable for the crime. If people are buying animals that are obviously to their knowledge endangered then it is up to them to find out that sort of information or they themselves are basically saying they dont care if their is a risk of illegal importation and then why shouldnt they be held liable?
Most people on these forums tend to like to know where their reptiles are from when they are buying them. I assume that when people buy, for example, rare snakes, they want to see paperwork of where it is imported from and if its legal and so on, rather than just buy it not knowing. If people dont want to check that for the sake of a cheap bargain and dont give a damn if its illegally imported or not then they are just as bad as the importers themselves.