Pet Keeping - A Cruelty

Uncle Herp · #1 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 05:16 AM

I recently posted this on our forum and got mixed responses from them. I'd sure like to know what you guys here think. This is how the it goes :

"Dear friends,they may be farmed animals,or maybe they were bought from some breeder,but aren't they still living beings?Don't they deserve freedom?Do you think that they love to stay in a small container,or a cage?whether it is a dog,or a snake or a grasshopper,won't they make all kind of noises and struggle to try and free themselves?When we were under British control,didn't we struggle to free ourselves?Of course,some of us bowed down to them,but they did it out of fear,not respect.and how can there be love if there is fear?Of course,dogs usually don't attack their owners,even the cruel owners.But the question is,if u love your pet,would you cage him?If you love ur pet,or ur husband or wife,won't you want them to be happy?How can they be happy if they are being kept controlled and locked all the time?Does love exist in you?

Have you seen the beauty of a birds flight?They are so happy that they start singing songs.Have you heard their beautiful songs.Have you seen a snake move in its natural habitat?How perfect they have blended with their environment that you usually cannot find them unless u know about snakes.Beauty is only found in freedom,and a possessive person has no love in him,for a loving person is a compassionate person,and certainly,caging an animal is a teribble act.
But surely,i do not condemn you.I just hope you realise the truth.Its important that we question ourselves and realise truth by our own,for if you realise that something is wrong,surely,the very realisation brings an end to that action.

Friend,the word captive in itself means to imprison.Therefore i ask the question,why do you imprison living beings?Don't you care for them?
Its true that captive breed animals have never seen the wild,and if released into the wild,they will die.On the part of the trader,all he wants is money,and therefore he will do the business that will give him money-where there is demand there is supply.But on your part,as an individual human being,don't you see the cruelty involved in this business?
Please,have a look at your pet.Do you think that it is happy inside those containers?Don't they always try to escape?Don't you feel sorry for them?Is your enjoyment more important that the snakes?Are you willing to sacrifice those lives for your enjoyment?
Put yourself in the snakes place.Do you like to be kept in a container?Would you like it if you were a captive breed human.
Friend,there are many slaves in the world,who were born slaves,that means their parents and grandparents were also slaves,yet,many try and try to run away from their masters,some of them have escaped to tell the horrible life they led.Do you think there is no more slavery?you have been sleeping.Search the net.
If you really see what i am saying to be true,don't buy captive breed animals anymore.If the buying stops,captive breeding will naturally stop.
so,why do you cage them if you love them?...you would say you don't want them to get hurt,if you have children,thats ok,because children don't know the danger,they are too small,but slowly,they will become independent.Its natural.nobody wants to stay locked in the house forever,right?And nobody wants to be following what elders say forever,right?(not meaning to disrespect elders,but we have our own brains and hearts,let us follow our hearts)

But pets,they are kept in a cage all their lives...
Whats your response to this?

You know,i have had fishes before.In the beginning,they would be so lively,swimming all over,playing and discovering everything...but slowly they loose interest in life,because there is nothing else which they can do...its just a boring life.Life is a precious thing.Every animal wants to live,fully.
Its our fault to keep them in cages and breed them in the first place.And now,everybody is arguing that pets cannot live on their own...such an artificial world."

I would really love to see your responses to this statement...

dtaylor21184 · #2 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 06:01 AM

your fish got bored cos they had nothing else to do?

they have a short memory so how could they ever get bored thye would never realise they had nothing to do every few seconds and the enclosure would be brand new to them again.

i personally disagree with your statement and not wanting to go into things too deeply think that we are the ones trapped. the majority of people repetitively do the same things day in day out, we aren't free we have to go to work because otherwise we don't eat, don't have a house, can't buy treats, buy clothes.... a feeling a captive snake will never have they will never worry about there next meal, predators or shelter because we are always looking out for them. we eliminate the eliment of fear and worry for a captive reptile or any other pet, we offer it everything it will ever need and as a bonus they get our love and respect. we are the ones trapped by society, we are not free to do what we want, when we want no matter how much we'd like to think we are.
i'm sure if you could communicate with a snake or any reptile and say ' listen i can offer you as much food as you can eat, clean water everyday, safety from being eaten or killed, shelter etc and in return all you have to do is settle for a smaller enclosure than your use to and in exchange you don't have to do anything for me' i'm sure they would be more than happy to come with you, wouldn't you?

dtaylor21184 · #3 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 06:14 AM

do you believe all animals should be wild?

if this is true then your our asking us to become wild.

society was built from one factor in my opinion......farming.
before farming people travelled to where the food was, moved from place to place in the search of food until the day farming was developed and no longer did we have to hunt for food instead we breed the food in one place which in turn meant we no longer needed to move around thus towns and cities could be created keeping us in the same place as the food. so now what we give all that up and leave animals to become wild again and go hunt for them how would this ever work. then again you might just be talking about pets but where do you draw the line and say one animal can be kept captive and another must be free, surely the issue is the care they receive whilst in captivity not the issue of restraining an animal for our own pleasure.

without captive animals the world we live in woudn't be the same the ability to get food, medical research(whether its right or wrong is another issue) creating cures for disease, and a greater understanding of the natural world.

i apologise if no one agrees with me just sharing my opinions.

darkdan99 · #4 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtaylor21184

your fish got bored cos they had nothing else to do?

they have a short memory so how could they ever get bored thye would never realise they had nothing to do every few seconds and the enclosure would be brand new to them again.

i personally disagree with your statement and not wanting to go into things too deeply think that we are the ones trapped. the majority of people repetitively do the same things day in day out, we aren't free we have to go to work because otherwise we don't eat, don't have a house, can't buy treats, buy clothes.... a feeling a captive snake will never have they will never worry about there next meal, predators or shelter because we are always looking out for them. we eliminate the eliment of fear and worry for a captive reptile or any other pet, we offer it everything it will ever need and as a bonus they get our love and respect. we are the ones trapped by society, we are not free to do what we want, when we want no matter how much we'd like to think we are.
i'm sure if you could communicate with a snake or any reptile and say ' listen i can offer you as much food as you can eat, clean water everyday, safety from being eaten or killed, shelter etc and in return all you have to do is settle for a smaller enclosure than your use to and in exchange you don't have to do anything for me' i'm sure they would be more than happy to come with you, wouldn't you?

i see your point, but it has been proven that fish DO have longer memories, and do know their enviroment. i can go in depth,but i choose not to at this point. breifly, how will it know what to eat, if it only has a 22/5/6/10/20 second memory?

and for the latter part, have you seen that film, belive its jim carey, where the guy is in a studio, all his life. the urge for freedom, rather than a controled life.

if i wad to offer you the choice, your life, or a life in a caravan, where you get 3 meals per day, and a radio, with bed etc, would you accept, because essentually this is what the snake is given. the basic survival necessities, and a little enrichment. and it cannot choose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtaylor21184

do you believe all animals should be wild?

if this is true then your our asking us to become wild.

society was built from one factor in my opinion......farming.
before farming people travelled to where the food was, moved from place to place in the search of food until the day farming was developed and no longer did we have to hunt for food instead we breed the food in one place which in turn meant we no longer needed to move around thus towns and cities could be created keeping us in the same place as the food. so now what we give all that up and leave animals to become wild again and go hunt for them how would this ever work. then again you might just be talking about pets but where do you draw the line and say one animal can be kept captive and another must be free, surely the issue is the care they receive whilst in captivity not the issue of restraining an animal for our own pleasure.

without captive animals the world we live in woudn't be the same the ability to get food, medical research(whether its right or wrong is another issue) creating cures for disease, and a greater understanding of the natural world.

i apologise if no one agrees with me just sharing my opinions.

i agree more with this, and it is a well put forward responce. and i will quote this again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtaylor21184

the issue is the care they receive whilst in captivity not the issue of restraining an animal for our own pleasure.

in my opinion, humans are a selfish, and overly demanding speices. we do things for our own plesure, and say "four letters" to anyone who disagrees.

i belive that caging of animals is neither wrong, nor right, just "somthing that is done" the bigger and better the cage, the more welcoming the enviroment. the more oppertunities the animal has to express natural behavour, the better the enviroment. i am agaisnst "racks" and tubs, as this is a un-natural setting, that IMO seems unfair. i also disagree with fish bowls. when i look at animals, i like to think "in its shoes" would i like the enclousure, if i answer no, or maybe, then it needs changing.

i opt for the most natural setups possible, within expence, and try to enrich the animals lives. i leave scent trails for the snakes, and "hide" the prey. move things about often so it seems differnt and a few other things.

there is a BIG line between reptiles and fish etc, and mammals. mammals are normally social animals, and as such welcome the uman into their natural group. name one pet that is widley kept and friendly etc, that doesnt live wildly in groups. (i know there will be a few, but it makes u think, and i cant think of any off hand). the owner becomes part of the pack, pride or group.

with cats especially, they opt for the easy option, they go out, and have the option to kill, and somtimes do, but 9 times out of 10, they dont, and come back for the bowl of food waiting. they have the option of freedom.

dogs, do also, off the lead playing fetch, they could keep running etc, but they come back, they know the owner as part of the group, and the source of its food.

rats, they are intellegent, as we are, they live out their on lives, in their cages, but we are part also, of the group. they enjoy our company. as we do theirs.

Basically, what i am saying is animals that dont need a "natural" enviroment, and those that welcome us, make good pets and in my opinion are easy to satisfy. whever they are there for the food, or the company is another debate.

animals that tolerate us, and those who require a natural enviroment are never essentually "pets". but captive animals. they live in a mimiced enviroment, a controlled ecosystem if you will.

the only reason pets need us, is becuse we have manipulated then in such a way, or removed them from their natural enviroment.

i hate the term "pet" its not my pet-its a life. and i never say that i "own" an animal. i live with it, care for it, and have payed for it, but i only "own" one life, mine. (i try not to use these terms but i slip-up)

if you disagree please say so, but i will not start a big debate about my opinions in this topic. please feel free to pm me, or msn chat (darkdan9@hotmail.com).

appologies also for the huge responce, but it is a subject close to my heart, as it were, and i have tried to keep it short.

if i made little sence, i appologise, i havent slept in 28 hours.

dtaylor21184 · #5 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

i hate the term "pet" its not my pet-its a life. and i never say that i "own" an animal. i live with it, care for it, and have payed for it, but i only "own" one life, mine. (i try not to use these terms but i slip-up)

totally agree with this pet is such a controlling word.

i'm not agreeing that i would want to be in a restricted area with basic requirements for the rest of my life just justifying what is given to the animals.

i've never had the chance to discuss my farming theory i shared above as people think i'm mad when i start to explain it.

i do sometimes sit back and think of whether its right or wrong that we keep them the way we do but when you think of the world as a whole and what happens to a lot of animals in the wild by humans it makes you think maybe just maybe there better of with me.

its a touchy subject really to post here.

people feel the need to control everything even each other

the world we live in is by no means perfect but it could be worse

dtaylor21184 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

and for the latter part, have you seen that film, belive its jim carey, where the guy is in a studio, all his life. the urge for freedom, rather than a controled life.

not sure its the same he never see's his captor or knows that he is captive. a snake would be aware of your presence and aware that it is not nature for a larger animal to handle it regularly without killing it so must figure somethings wrong. he had everything normal just captive nothing out of the ordinary from his point of view.

surely the questions is though if he was never aware of the rest of the world would he not just be content to live were he was like in the village. they were brought up to only know one thing and believed there world was all there was and never went looking for anything more.

how do you know your not being kept in captivity now and that all this isn't just a natural setup made to keep us in just on a larger scale and more complex?

gods idea of a pet

Ssthisto · #7 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 08:36 AM

Nice bit of PETA propaganda there, I'm sure they'll use it when they see it.

Honestly? Given a choice, if we could explain to wild animals that:

"I will feed you the food you want to eat, and you won't have to fight for it or risk getting hurt to eat. I will provide you with warmth and you will not have to compete with a more dominant animal for the best spot. I will provide you with shelter, and it will belong to you alone. I will provide you with a mate, and though you may not get to choose who it is, you will not have to fight and possibly die to get it. Your offspring will go on to populate the world, and they will also be protected. I will provide veterinary care so that if you get sick we can do our best to make you better. I will protect you from predators. I will protect you from cold. I will protect you from dehydration. I will protect you from other members of your species who are stronger or bigger than you. And all I ask is that you live in my house, in this cage, for the rest of your life..."

You'd have wild animals pounding your door down to get in.

Animals don't want to be "free" - they want food, water, shelter, protection from predators, not to have to fight conspecifics for the best resources... and that is what captivity offers. They don't have a concept of "freedom" in the same way humans do. And for that matter, not all humans want to be "Free". Some humans would break your door down to have everything provided for them, even if it came at the cost of their freedom.

However, this only works if people DO provide the right conditions for those in their care. Yes, some of the conditions we keep the animals in our custody in are deplorable - factory farmed chickens, puppy mills and so on. The point is not to "free" all animals... it is to improve the conditions for all animals.

leogirl · #8 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

Nice bit of PETA propaganda there, I'm sure they'll use it when they see it.

Honestly? Given a choice, if we could explain to wild animals that:

"I will feed you the food you want to eat, and you won't have to fight for it or risk getting hurt to eat. I will provide you with warmth and you will not have to compete with a more dominant animal for the best spot. I will provide you with shelter, and it will belong to you alone. I will provide you with a mate, and though you may not get to choose who it is, you will not have to fight and possibly die to get it. Your offspring will go on to populate the world, and they will also be protected. I will provide veterinary care so that if you get sick we can do our best to make you better. I will protect you from predators. I will protect you from cold. I will protect you from dehydration. I will protect you from other members of your species who are stronger or bigger than you. And all I ask is that you live in my house, in this cage, for the rest of your life..."

You'd have wild animals pounding your door down to get in.

Animals don't want to be "free" - they want food, water, shelter, protection from predators, not to have to fight conspecifics for the best resources... and that is what captivity offers. They don't have a concept of "freedom" in the same way humans do. And for that matter, not all humans want to be "Free". Some humans would break your door down to have everything provided for them, even if it came at the cost of their freedom.

However, this only works if people DO provide the right conditions for those in their care. Yes, some of the conditions we keep the animals in our custody in are deplorable - factory farmed chickens, puppy mills and so on. The point is not to "free" all animals... it is to improve the conditions for all animals.

well said!

darkdan99 · #9 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 10:05 AM

[quote=Ssthisto;306429]

Animals don't want to be "free" - they want food, water, shelter, protection from predators, not to have to fight conspecifics for the best resources... and that is what captivity offers. They don't have a concept of "freedom" in the same way humans do. And for that matter, not all humans want to be "Free". Some humans would break your door down to have everything provided for them, even if it came at the cost of their freedom.[quote]

instatutionalisation, i do agree, but you doubt the animals understanding of captivity, yet you grantit the intelegence to want to be "safe" in captivity.

although i do agree with the final paragraph, i disagree with some other parts, but the hapyyness of the animal depends directly on the keeper, and the provided surrounding.

more later, i goin shopping now, oh' JOY

Athravan · #10 (**permalink**) 12-02-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ssthisto

Nice bit of PETA propaganda there, I'm sure they'll use it when they see it.

Honestly? Given a choice, if we could explain to wild animals that:

"I will feed you the food you want to eat, and you won't have to fight for it or risk getting hurt to eat. I will provide you with warmth and you will not have to compete with a more dominant animal for the best spot. I will provide you with shelter, and it will belong to you alone. I will provide you with a mate, and though you may not get to choose who it is, you will not have to fight and possibly die to get it. Your offspring will go on to populate the world, and they will also be protected. I will provide veterinary care so that if you get sick we can do our best to make you better. I will protect you from predators. I will protect you from cold. I will protect you from dehydration. I will protect you from other members of your species who are stronger or bigger than you. And all I ask is that you live in my house, in this cage, for the rest of your life..."

You'd have wild animals pounding your door down to get in.

Animals don't want to be "free" - they want food, water, shelter, protection from predators, not to have to fight conspecifics for the best resources... and that is what captivity offers. They don't have a concept of "freedom" in the same way humans do. And for that matter, not all humans want to be "Free". Some humans would break your door down to have everything provided for them, even if it came at the cost of their freedom.

However, this only works if people DO provide the right conditions for those in their care. Yes, some of the conditions we keep the animals in our custody in are deplorable - factory farmed chickens, puppy mills and so on. The point is not to "free" all animals... it is to improve the conditions for all animals.

I agree with this 100%. Humans have a concept of freedom that you cannot equate with animals really. Our freedom, is not the "freedom" that animals have in the wild. We do not get hunted and eaten, our every moment is not about having to survive, compete, fight, just for the basics of living, eating, mating. We don't have predators waiting for every wrong step, to take away our mate, our offspring.

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