Huge Rant From the Dark Side - Page 2

Meko · #11 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob-stl-07

so where do the playgrounds come from?

the local council usually

RussianTort55 · #12 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 11:05 PM

its not that, its just every pet shop i have ever been in has a 13 year old chav telling me i need a heat rock for my royal boa. Its rare to find a decent one that actually wants to help and care about the animals, most are in it purely for the money and couldnt care less about the animals. I have yet to come across a pet shop that i would actually buy a reptile from. (experiance from visiting the pet shops around here)

solid · #13 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 11:33 PM

To defend the decent breeders though - its up to you as the buyer to vet the shop or breeder you are buying from. If you choose to buy an animal without seeing it then more fool you. If you vet a breeder and are happy with what you see then you WILL save money so i'd much rather do that.

The problem with some rep / pet shops is that as you say, there are big overheads - this means to improve profit they have to put a premium on the animal - it has nothing to do with it being better than one from a breeder because of licensing or staff knowledge - its money, plain and simple.

The other issue then is that the other way to increase profit is to cut corners and thats why there are so many bad ones.

I have no idea what your shop is like or where it is so i can't comment but in my experiance there is at least one bad one for every good one.

And i have bought snakes from both breeders AND shops - and i travelled to make sure i got a quality animal - and in return i have never had an issue with advice or feeding or illness (except one lot of mites - but no proof of origin) - that includes trips from Bournemouth to London, Bristol, Leeds, Huddersfield and Birmingham.

I get what you're saying and good on you for piping up - but also, just because breeders don't have licensing or training doesn't mean shops are better.

I've personally learnt a hell of a lot more from asking breeders questions (and keepers of experience) than rep shop staff.

Anyway, thats my personal experience NOT a generalisation

Mephitis · #14 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solid

To defend the decent breeders though - its up to you as the buyer to vet the shop or breeder you are buying from. If you choose to buy an animal without seeing it then more fool you. If you vet a breeder and are happy with what you see then you WILL save money so i'd much rather do that.

The problem with some rep / pet shops is that as you say, there are big overheads - this means to improve profit they have to put a premium on the animal - it has nothing to do with it being better than one from a breeder because of licensing or staff knowledge - its money, plain and simple.

The other issue then is that the other way to increase profit is to cut corners and thats why there are so many bad ones.

I have no idea what your shop is like or where it is so i can't comment but in my experiance there is at least one bad one for every good one.

And i have bought snakes from both breeders AND shops - and i travelled to make sure i got a quality animal - and in return i have never had an issue with advice or feeding or illness (except one lot of mites - but no proof of origin) - that includes trips from Bournemouth to London, Bristol, Leeds, Huddersfield and Birmingham.

I get what you're saying and good on you for piping up - but also, just because breeders don't have licensing or training doesn't mean shops are better.

I've personally learnt a hell of a lot more from asking breeders questions (and keepers of experience) than rep shop staff.

Anyway, thats my personal experience NOT a generalisation

This is the shop i go to Reddish Reptiles
And they have a very good knowledge of the animals they sell........
IMO I have been to a few that know nothing! but there is some out there that actually know what they are doing.

John

MissMoose · #15 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evie

Maybe I’m being oversensitive here but pet shops seem to take a lot of criticism here: staff, prices, knowledge and husbandry etc.
It all seems very contrary when so many members seem to want careers in the animal care industry but are reluctant to because it pays peanuts, it pays peanuts because people want everything cheap.
Of course it’s cheaper to buy your choice of pet from the breeder but it’s also cheaper to buy DVDs off a bloke in a pub. Breeders of small animals/reptiles and birds are unlicensed, unlegislated, uninspected and don’t have to have any qualifications other than the ability to add 1 + 1 and come up with loads of babies to sell.
Pet shops have huge overheads, staff to pay and standards to achieve – and also fall victim to uneducated inspectors.
Most of the people that I see with pet related problems, have these problems because they got their pet from a private seller with no reputation to protect and no fear of redress when things go wrong. I regularly have to identify birds and reptiles that people have acquired from some random person and they don’t even know what it is.
I have worked in various branches of the animal care industry for 30 years and I get sick of people telling me what the breeder/their mate/their mates mum said.
Pet shops are the first place people go when or before they get a new animal. It’s the pet shops that are in a position to offer guidance and hopefully get people off on the right footing. As a pet shop employee I have to have knowledge of the husbandry, behaviour and health of rodents, lagamorphs, cats, dogs, reptiles, amphibians, birds and fish as well as knowledge of all the accessories that are available and how they should be used.
Just because I work in a pet shop doesn’t mean my opinions/knowledge and experiences are invalid, and it doesn’t mean I’m stupid! Respect the staff in your local pet shop!

Rant over – just wanted to get that off my chest.

I dont think you're being oversensitive at all mate, i completely agree

WeThePeople · #16 (**permalink**) 06-02-2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptile world

This is the shop i go to Reddish Reptiles
And they have a very good knowledge of the animals they sell........
IMO I have been to a few that know nothing! but there is some out there that actually know what they are doing.

John

Dont you work there?

essexchondro · #17 (**permalink**) 06-02-2008, 09:18 PM

[quote]

Quote:

Maybe I’m being oversensitive here but pet shops seem to take a lot of criticism here: staff, prices, knowledge and husbandry etc.
It all seems very contrary when so many members seem to want careers in the animal care industry but are reluctant to because it pays peanuts, it pays peanuts because people want everything cheap.
Of course it’s cheaper to buy your choice of pet from the breeder but it’s also cheaper to buy DVDs off a bloke in a pub.

Thats a bit of a misleading comparison. DVD's from the bloke in the pub are (usually) inferior quality pirate copies. If you buy from a quality breeder (note that I'm not saying any old seller on a classifieds ad) you're getting a CB animal. Good breeders don't deal in CF and WC stock, pet shops do! Seems to me that its the pet shops that often deal in "pirate dvd's", so to speak.

Quote:

Breeders of small animals/reptiles and birds are unlicensed, unlegislated, uninspected and don’t have to have any qualifications other than the ability to add 1 + 1 and come up with loads of babies to sell.

Quality breeders' business is built upon their reputation. They may not need the same formal licences or have to abide by the same legislation but their passion for what they do usually keeps them in line just as much, if not more so, that the more formal regulations that pet shops (are supposed to) adhere to in their business of making a profit.

I'm surprised that someone with "qualifications" would equate captive breeding to nothing more than "an ability to add 1+1 and come up with loads of babies to sell". This notion completely ignores the fact that most breeders are persuing particular (morph?) projects which require careful thought and are not just randomly pairing males with females. If captive breeding is so simple can I ask why so many pet shops sell inferior quality WC and CF animals (often passed off as CB!)?

Quote:

Pet shops have huge overheads, staff to pay and standards to achieve – and also fall victim to uneducated inspectors.

Of course they do. But why should we, as consumers, give a c**p about that. We want whats best for us. If shops can't compete with the prices and quality that private breeders can provide us with then shops need to rethink their business strategy.

Quote:

Most of the people that I see with pet related problems, have these problems because they got their pet from a private seller with no reputation to protect and no fear of redress when things go wrong.

Fair point, but plenty of breeders spend a lot of time helping people who've been sold inferior animals with inadequate set-ups by their local pet shop.

Quote:

I regularly have to identify birds and reptiles that people have acquired from some random person and they don’t even know what it is.

Good point. Listen up people, don't buy reptiles from random people. Go to a reputable breeder!

Quote:

I have worked in various branches of the animal care industry for 30 years and I get sick of people telling me what the breeder/their mate/their mates mum said.
Pet shops are the first place people go when or before they get a new animal. It’s the pet shops that are in a position to offer guidance and hopefully get people off on the right footing

As long as its something the shop have in stock, right!

Quote:

As a pet shop employee I have to have knowledge of the husbandry, behaviour and health of rodents, lagamorphs, cats, dogs, reptiles, amphibians, birds and fish as well as knowledge of all the accessories that are available and how they should be used.

Couldn't of said it better myself. People, if you want to speak to a "jack of all trades" get yourself down to a pet shop. If you want to speak to a specialist, speak to a reputable breeder. I have no doubt that a good pet shop employee has fantastic general knowledge when it comes to a wide range of species. I seriously doubt they have as much depth when it comes to any one single species as a breeder who's "business" has grown out of a passion for a particular species.

Quote:

Just because I work in a pet shop doesn’t mean my opinions/knowledge and experiences are invalid, and it doesn’t mean I’m stupid! Respect the staff in your local pet shop!

But I could mean your opinions and knowledge are less valid than other sources. Respect is to be earned, not given without reason.

cheers

Stuart

Evie · #18 (**permalink**) 06-02-2008, 11:16 PM

Stuart, I just spent ages giving your post a careful and considered reply - but it took a while and by the time I was ready to post it, the flipping forum had timed me out. I can't be bothered to do it again so you'll just have to take my word for it that it was REALLY good

Oh and btw I have forgotten more about my particular specialist species than most people will ever know.

essexchondro · #19 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Stuart, I just spent ages giving your post a careful and considered reply - but it took a while and by the time I was ready to post it, the flipping forum had timed me out. I can't be bothered to do it again so you'll just have to take my word for it that it was REALLY good

Oh and btw I have forgotten more about my particular specialist species than most people will ever know.

Yeah ok, I'll assume your answer would have completely blown me out of the water. Its a shame you have such valid points to make yet can't be bothered to make them! Still, I suppose its hard for you guys with all your qualifications to lower yourselves to the level of the private hobbyist/breeder!

I never said you didn't have an area of specialism. I merely highlighted the fact that since you offer advice on lots of species you therefore offer advice on species that you don't specialise in. To my mind that's not in the best interests of the consumer, regardless of any good intentions that you may have towards them and their new pet.

DeanThorpe · #20 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 12:47 AM

Only read the first post...
How can you compare a breeder to a bloke selling pirated dvd's down the pub?

wholesalers are some of the worse places in regards to how the animals and kept before being moved on to the shops [especially those most shops use as standard]

No breeders on here as far a si know shift pets to people and dont tell them how to look after them..quite the opposite mostly...

if you coem from a good rep shop where the local breederes are pants..then thats where you are and thats fair [but a terrible shame] but if you hear someone here having a go about a particular shop...then you have to either think they ar ebeing harsh..or admit what they do is bad.

People dont moan about shops "because they are shops" rather..because they are "bad rep shops"
The goo dones get there praises sung.

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