where are these geckos gazz? have you seen them for sale, i only want to buy from the uk[/quote]

A&M Gecko in USA gutting is't it .I assume you could get them from Hamm show god knows how much they'll be though.

so i like red eyed enigmas best like this one at chrystal palace
but since he's a bell albino he's not compatible with what i have already and still not sure about some of the isues with the morph in general so i think i'll wait a year or two, i think the super snow albinos look amazing, that dark one especialy, are there any secret breeder websites that are uk based and google doesn't put to the top of the list?

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1:0 wonder gecko
3:6 leopard geckos
__male bell enigma !!!
__male RAPTOR
__male circle back
__female murphy patternless tremper albino
__female mack snow bell albino
__female tremper mack super snow het, RAPTOR
__female enigma !!!
__female tremper enigma !!!

Are you sure patternless reverse stripe is hidden by the Super Snow patterning?

As for the Super Snow black eye - I wouldn't be certain it's allelic to and thus dominant to Eclipse - they're probably two separate genes on two separate gene loci (same as Tremper and Bell albinos are two different genes)... which would mean it'd be possible for an animal to have Super Snow solid eyes AND be a genetic homozygous Eclipse too. Proving it would be the problem (I'd test-breed it to a non-albino Eclipse animal that isn't Mack Snow at all - if you got all Eclipse-eyed offspring and never got a non-eclipse/snake-eyed animal, you've got a homozygous Eclipse).

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- Ssthisto






Lizards: 2.2 E. macularius, 1.2 H. caudicinctus, 1.0 R. ciliatus, 0.2.1 A. fragilis, 1.1 T. merianae, 1.0 V. niloticus ittibittius
Colubrids: 4.4.8 P. guttattus, 1.0 P. guttatus X E. climacophora, 1.0 P. o. rossalini, 1.0 P. o. lindheimeri, 0.1 E. anomala, 0.1 C. radiatus
1.2 Lamprophis spp, 1.0 L. g. nigritus, 0.1 L. g. californiae, 1.0 H. n. nasicus
Boids: 1.1 E. c. maurus, 0.1 E. conicus, 4.1.6 P. regius, 1.1 A. maculosa
We HAD a three-bedroom house... Current lodgers: 1.0 E. c. maurus, 1.1 E. c. loveridgei

i've tried to keep up with this conversation, but it's not happening lol

I've seen two super snow that would be if allow expressing eclipse there super snow body is standed.There is two so called eclipse super snow as of yet and there are also a fair amount so called albino eclipse super snow the fact that all have solid eye not one as of yet has expressed any degree of snake eye that tell me that super snow black eye is dominants over eclipse.And if it can't express it can't be so so called super RAPTOR's are not.Maybe when more people are breeding them thing may start to happen.But based on what i've seen so far i would hold my breath.

This is the best a so called eclipse super snow patternless striped is going to get IMO and patternless striped it deffantly is not.And non of them as of yet have expressed snake eye.So IMO there super snow het eclipse not super snow expressing eclipse.Note the white nose that's the only hint you get there eclipse there but IMO that an't good enough to say eclipse only to show it is carrying eclipse i need to see snake eyes first then i'll be happy to say eclipse super snow.

That's like saying that "Murphy Patternless" is dominant over "Hypo". It masks it - but it isn't "dominant" to it. I have an animal who is almost certainly a Hypo Murphy Patternless (he's produced super hypo offspring when bred to a hypo) ... you can't TELL he's hypo, but the gene's still there.

Alleles of the same gene are dominant or recessive or co/incomplete dominant to each other, but alleles of different genes are apples and oranges. Until it's proven that Eclipse is allelic to the gene that makes Super Snows have black eyes ... they can't be said to be 'dominant' or 'recessive' to each other at all. That said, I can believe that the phenotype of Super Mack Snow black eyes could mask the Eclipse eye.

That's why I said that proving you had a homozygous Eclipse Super Snow from a second-generation cross would take test-breeding to a non-Mack homozygous Eclipse animal. If you produce all Eclipse/Snake-Eyed offspring from that pairing, it's pretty certain your Super Snow is also homozygous Eclipse whether or not it has snake eyes.

__________________
- Ssthisto






Lizards: 2.2 E. macularius, 1.2 H. caudicinctus, 1.0 R. ciliatus, 0.2.1 A. fragilis, 1.1 T. merianae, 1.0 V. niloticus ittibittius
Colubrids: 4.4.8 P. guttattus, 1.0 P. guttatus X E. climacophora, 1.0 P. o. rossalini, 1.0 P. o. lindheimeri, 0.1 E. anomala, 0.1 C. radiatus
1.2 Lamprophis spp, 1.0 L. g. nigritus, 0.1 L. g. californiae, 1.0 H. n. nasicus
Boids: 1.1 E. c. maurus, 0.1 E. conicus, 4.1.6 P. regius, 1.1 A. maculosa
We HAD a three-bedroom house... Current lodgers: 1.0 E. c. maurus, 1.1 E. c. loveridgei

(M)patternless and blizzard are dominant over all body patterns.I mean in a visual sence you can't see the hypo so no point in saying hypo (M)patternless.Though it hides the hypo look is dominant in that sences.But it's not dominant in the sence that it lets the hypo gene het past on.This is what i mean in regards to the super snow black eye and eclipse.Eclipse may well be there but super snow black eye visually want let you see it.So no point in saying eclipse went super snow black is always on top.

Sorry i'm not sure if it's cumming out wright ??.I know what i mean but not sure if you know what i mean .

I think we're probably talking about the same thing - my confusion is in the use of the word "dominant" - which refers to how alleles of the same gene work together, not how different genes work together. I'm using dominance in the genetic/allelic sense only - and would use the term "masking" to refer to the phenotypic effect of what you're calling "dominance".

For example, it's possible that, say, Rainwater Albino will mask Tremper Albino - but they're not dominant to or recessive to or indeed anything else to each other if they're not alleles of the same gene.

__________________
- Ssthisto






Lizards: 2.2 E. macularius, 1.2 H. caudicinctus, 1.0 R. ciliatus, 0.2.1 A. fragilis, 1.1 T. merianae, 1.0 V. niloticus ittibittius
Colubrids: 4.4.8 P. guttattus, 1.0 P. guttatus X E. climacophora, 1.0 P. o. rossalini, 1.0 P. o. lindheimeri, 0.1 E. anomala, 0.1 C. radiatus
1.2 Lamprophis spp, 1.0 L. g. nigritus, 0.1 L. g. californiae, 1.0 H. n. nasicus
Boids: 1.1 E. c. maurus, 0.1 E. conicus, 4.1.6 P. regius, 1.1 A. maculosa
We HAD a three-bedroom house... Current lodgers: 1.0 E. c. maurus, 1.1 E. c. loveridgei