Draft Code of Ethics - Consultation - Page 5

TSKA Rory Matier · #41 (**permalink**) 26-03-2008, 05:16 PM

Hi Nick,

I have a copy of this on my desktop and am reading the comments to your thread as well as the copy on board.

In principal l think it is a good concept.

It needs working, this l know myself, as we are working on a suggested code, and that is a nightmare, but albeit primates, it is easier for keepers to agree in theory, not so much practice. Reptile keeping codes of ethics/standards/practice were always going to be harder.

I like some of this, and would like to discuss it further.

Rory Matier PKL:PKA

sammy1969 · #42 (**permalink**) 26-03-2008, 10:41 PM

I think in principal this is a really good idea. Yes it needs alot of work andsuch but if we can do something like this ourselves and make it work it owuld be alot better than allowing certain government bodies tell us what we should or shouldnt be doing.
THis sort of thing is bound to take time and there is goign to be alot of debate about it and i dont see it being created in the very near future but that being said if we dont do something soon we arent going to be alble to do anything at all

arkreptiles · #43 (**permalink**) 27-03-2008, 12:08 AM

First of all can I say a big THANK YOU to EVERYONE who has made a contribution so far. PM's, emails and posts on other forums are still coming through and I am desperately attempting to keep track and make notes on all the suggestions, views and comments.

I will try and summarise all the findings to date this weekend and post/circulate the summary (if anyone wants this by email, just let me know). I wanted to contact the various organisations too this week but that will also need to be done this weekend.

Gut feeling is that another couple of weeks should at least have given the members on the various forum time to comment and I would hope to have some feedback from the organisations too.

purejurrasic · #44 (**permalink**) 27-03-2008, 01:21 AM

Its interesting to see all the different comments, and on the whole, they all seem to lean in the same direction, so at this stage, I think there should be enough agreement with some jigging to get this up and running.

Scott W · #45 (**permalink**) 27-03-2008, 09:48 AM

There's a lot of great principles and ideas in this thread but I certainly would NOT be comfortable with people I do not know (and therefore have no idea on their experiances with reptiles) to actually write codes of practice for any species.

COP's for reptiles will be an absolute minefield and something that if attempted to write in too much detail will cause nothing but problems and friction and will never get the full agreement of enough clubs / societies and breeders to make it count for anything other than another gloryfied caresheet.

I really think things need to go back to the basics and start off with simple principles within shops, these principles (call them COP's) would need the full support of the TRADE (i.e. wholesalers). Slowly over time they can get more in-depth but I don't EVER see how you can apply COP's to private keepers. You only have to read 5 different caresheets on the same reptile to see how variable peoples methods are.

An example for you, almost EVERY care sheet and forum post I have seen states that crested geckos should be sprayed daily. Do I do that? NO, in fact I haven't sprayed my adults in over 2 years. Would I be breaking the Crested Gecko COP? Do my geckos suffer? No, of course not, I have different methods for providing their needs but would someone without the same experiance of cresteds know this?

arkreptiles · #46 (**permalink**) 27-03-2008, 10:26 AM

I'd really like to get this going ASAP too Tony, my concern is that without giving a wider audience at least the opportunity to express their views or at least for that audience to have been made aware of this we could be putting ourselves up for a big fall. My professional experience in political lobbying, public consultation etc has taught this (sometimes rather painful) lesson to me if nothing else!!!

It's interesting to us to see the different viewpoints that are being expressed on the various forum we have posted this on and the issues each seem to be focussing on.

All views are good and exactly why we are going through this process. One view that is being echoed by a good number of people to date is that they do NOT want to be dictated to - neither would I to be honest!!

Adding a few extra (personal) thoughts however; in the light of SOME of the comments raised ....... the initial aim of this perhaps should be to put together a very basic set of practices that keepers/breeders can say they use (which I'm sure we all do anyway) - NOT be prescriptive about HOW they are carried out. For example a statement that would say 'I/We do have a Quarantine Policy/Refunds Policy/will only sell healthy well cared for animals etc...

Such an undertaking would need to be voluntary. All those that want to undertake these practices and be seen to be using them could then sign onto a website that would log their information for prospective buyers to see.

After say 6 months, the number of keepers that had signed up could be reviewed and if there were sufficient numbers to then look to those people to determine whether to create something more formal and the scope of its mandate - something like the 'second stage' referred to in the original post.

This would mean that no-one is signing up in the first instance to a formally constituted body - merely advertising the fact that they are interested in the idea and have made the fact known - maybe through logging into a website that would have their contact details which can be viewed by the public?

Interpreting the general sentiments so far(and it is only my interpretation - so tell me if I've mis-read please!!) I could see this idea creating a group of people/keepers etc that are united under one umbrella such that organisations like DEFRA, IHS, FBH etc could guide the general public and the rest of us to a web reference point in order to find/locate keepers/breeders in their regions who are seen to be committed to the well being of their animals (I know we all are I hope but how does the new hobbyist know?).

Just a few more thoughts to throw into the 'pot'!! I'll put my tin hat on!!

gaz · #47 (**permalink**) 30-03-2008, 03:15 PM

People mention breeders...who do you mean??? You do know that there are probably less than than 5 professional breeders in the UK (i.e. those that earn their living from breeding reptiles).[/quote]

hmmmmm just here in my bit of South Wales theres me and another guy who are professional breeders,extrapolate across the country and that would suggest hundreds at least
regards gaz

Scott W · #48 (**permalink**) 08-04-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaz

hmmmmm just here in my bit of South Wales theres me and another guy who are professional breeders,extrapolate across the country and that would suggest hundreds at least
regards gaz

Gaz, do you really think there are over 100 people in the uk that breed reptiles 100% for their income and as such are a registered business? (I don't mean retired folk earning some extra cash from a hobby)

Perhaps I would be suprised by the total number but I still wouldn't believe it to be that much higher than my initial estimate (pm if you have any names, I'm really curious now...)

gaz · #49 (**permalink**) 08-04-2008, 09:23 AM

well if theres 2 of us here within 7 miles of each other surely there will be plenty more across the whole of the uk,could ask the inland revenue maybe?? i dont know how to access such information,but then if there are really just a few of us and the rest are not registered maybe its best left to lie
regards gaz

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