Draft Code of Ethics - Consultation

nicklamb · #1 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 05:54 PM

Can we ask that you take a few minutes to read through the working document below.

In light of recent uncertainty amongst reptile keepers and a healthy, emotive debate on this forum a few of us have taken a positive out of this and believe there is merit in producing a code of ethics that breeders/buyers could agree to.

This is a working document, so it can be edited, added to and developed further. We would therefore welcome candid and sensible suggestions and comments

Reptilia Amphibian and Invert Breeders Association (UK)
(Working Title)

Please consider this as a ‘working document’. It has been produced in order to elicit opinion from breeders and keepers to:

the idea of adopting a voluntary best practice guide
what such a guide should cover

From initial discussions/correspondence with breeders from both the UK and the US and more general opinion expressed through a number of public forum there is a perceived desire/need to have in place an ethical code to reassure the hobby of the health and well being of animals being produced and sold.

There are also concerns that new cultivars that are not properly tested before being released into the hobby, could and do, in a number of instances, have genetic issues that can affect behaviour, fertility and a number of other symptoms that may be deleterious.

In an ideal world a full system of registration of litters/clutches etc would be in place and available to breeders as would a register of available animals to the public. Such systems are in place for other Taxa for example through the Kennel Club.

However, in the example of the Kennel Club it has been in existence since 1873 – clearly they have had plenty of time to refine their system! Furthermore there are a number of practical implementation issues that need proper consideration before this can be put in place in a proper, detailed and consensual manner.

Through the discussions mentioned above a suggestion has been put forward as a first step in working towards the creation of a ‘Kennel Club equivalent’ that would provide the initial comfort to the hobby and the public concerning the quality of animals being sold, their care and propagation.

The current thinking is that such a ‘first step’ would manifest itself in the form of a voluntary association. This association would not require fees to be paid for membership – the only requirement of membership being a written commitment to follow the best practice/ethics code of the association. No formal constitution is being proposed but that it should be administered in the first instance by the membership.

It is further thought that such a ‘code’ should be basic in the sense of being clear, easily understood and not ‘steeped’ in bureaucracy.

In the first instance, it is felt that the Association should adopt the following:

Founding Principles
General Code of Ethics

This would allow a test period (suggestions as to length of period are welcome!) to determine how many breeders ‘sign-up’ to these principles and ultimately inform the association of the need/desire to expand its mandate.

Suggestions for a ‘second stage’ have included the following:

Accredited Breeders
Offspring Registration
Sales Register

This could potentially be a very interesting and exciting time for all of those in the hobby. We have the opportunity to ‘authenticate’ what we do, promote a wider understanding of what many perceive to be ‘creepy crawlies’ and to educate the wider community and help conservation.

This can be an extremely positive move that allows hobbyists to determine how such animals could be kept before arguably being legislated against by bureaucrats with no first hand experience or detailed knowledge.

It is felt that in promoting such an association we are under an obligation to advertise the fact as widely as possible. To this end the IHS, FBH, other related forum’s and the Pro-Keepers Lobby will be canvassed for their opinions.

Outlined below are the proposed Founding Principles and Best Practice Guide referred to above.
Founding Principles
1. to promote responsible reptilia, amphibian and invert ownership
2. to enhance our understanding and relationship with our pets
3. to create a voluntary medium for keepers and breeders of all reptilia, amphibians and inverts to exchange information
4. to provide a best practice guide for the captive husbandry and breeding of these species
5. to provide a means for prospective and existing owners of these species to identify breeders who adopt the best practice guide
6. to provide objective information on species and cultivar specific issues including any empirical or scientific research that is being undertaken and to publish any findings
CODE of Best Practice
Husbandry

Owners will keep all species covered under the Founding Principles in conditions appropriate to the species in terms of housing, environment, dietary and hygiene needs
Owners will use appropriate quarantine procedures when dealing with new animals or sick animals (either medically diagnosed or suspected sick animals prior to diagnosis)
Owners agree not to breed from a female in any way which is detrimental to the female or cultivar.

Sale of Animals

Owners agree only to sell animals where there is a reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life
Owners will offer help to re-home an animal if the initial circumstances change.
Owners will supply Care Sheets for each species of animal sold to include, as a minimum, housing, heating and dietary requirements and give guidance concerning responsible ownership when placing animals in a new home.
Owners will provide any paperwork required by statute to the new owner. The owner will agree, in writing, to forward any relevant documents at the earliest opportunity, if not immediately available.
For captive bred animals, owners will provide details confirming that the animal being sold is produced from legally obtained parents and provide its parents’ details
Non captive bred animals should be stated as such and identified as being either wild caught or long term captive with details of where purchased and of any other history that the owner is aware
Owners will not knowingly misrepresent the characteristics of an animal nor falsely advertise or mislead any person regarding the quality of an animal
This code advocates providing as much other information as the owner considers necessary pertaining to the history of any animal being sold, for example (but not restricted to), its date of birth, feeding, shedding and weight records or ancestry
This code advocates that all owners adopt a returns policy and make such a policy available to buyers

Thank you for taking the time to read this post

katelikesfun · #2 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 06:04 PM

What I have read sounds brilliant! I'm still trying to get my head around it all though and how this can be monitored or whether its not suppposed to be seeing as its 'ethics'. Thanks for sharing Nick my hat goes off to ya

Lucifus · #3 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 06:13 PM

I refuse to follow other peoples Morals and Ethics even if they are in line with my own. I will only follow my own.......

However i will say that its very well set out and i agree with most items on there.

Faith · #4 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 06:16 PM

Ok ive read it and i dont agree

1, who is going to tell me how to quarentine?
2, who is going to tell me what habitat i need
3, do you expect invert people to agree with that because i know a fair few who wont.
4, no payment~ who will pay for the webspace? the admin?
5, do you all declare your earnings to the tax man?

As for the other societies
they cant even agree on a code of practice with the rspca it has been said many times they will not unite. They can not condone anything like this with out being seen as one sided.
They have no weight were the rspca are concerned.

You have already said no to a committee which is absurd
it will not be democratically run at all and how can anyone tell someone how to keep a species if they have no knowledge of it
What makes one keeper better than another?

How can someone advise me how to keep a certain species if they have never kept it them selfs?

purejurrasic · #5 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 06:17 PM

My first thoughts are that the scope is to large.

I will comment further when I've read and digested it !

Diablo · #6 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 06:18 PM

I lol'ed thats all I can say Aim High lol

nicklamb · #7 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifus

I refuse to follow other peoples Morals and Ethics even if they are in line with my own. I will only follow my own.......

However i will say that its very well set out and i agree with most items on there.

Thanks Lucifus - we understand your position. The whole point is that it is not meant to be other peoples morals - this is an attempt to produce something that we all do any way - it just brings it together to be transparent to the outside world - if we dont self regulate then someone else may do eventually.

As the top of the thread suggests it is open to much amendment and is a 'starter for ten' so to speak

Rainwater · #8 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 06:25 PM

[quote=nicklamb;1538450]

Please consider this as a ‘working document’. It has been produced in order to elicit opinion from breeders and keepers to:

the idea of adopting a voluntary best practice guide
what such a guide should cover

(who made this decision, who came up with this?)

No formal constitution is being proposed but that it should be administered in the first instance by the membership.

(a constitution - wouldn't a constitution democratically voted for and agreed upon with a safe majority be a fairer way of doing this. ll major instututions have one, why would this be any different?)

In the first instance, it is felt that the Association should adopt the following:

Founding Principles
General Code of Ethics

(Who will decide these? Will these too be voted on?)

It is felt that in promoting such an association we are under an obligation to advertise the fact as widely as possible. To this end the IHS, FBH, other related forum’s and the Pro-Keepers Lobby will be canvassed for their opinions.

(Should they not be included in the talks if they hold this common interest rather than just being canvassed?)

Founding Principles
1. to promote responsible reptilia, amphibian and invert ownership
2. to enhance our understanding and relationship with our pets
3. to create a voluntary medium for keepers and breeders of all reptilia, amphibians and inverts to exchange information
4. to provide a best practice guide for the captive husbandry and breeding of these species (and where will you get this? What will it include? What happens if someone wants to do it differently? What if you like 90F for leo heat mats and I prefer 85F?)
5. to provide a means for prospective and existing owners of these species to identify breeders who adopt the best practice guide (Who says what's best? Matter of opinion...)

CODE of Best Practice
Husbandry

Owners will keep all species covered under the Founding Principles in conditions appropriate to the species in terms of housing, environment, dietary and hygiene needs

(What if someone doesn't agree with your principles and prefers to do things differently - in which doesn't harm the animal in any shape or form. There's a lot of species and reptile...bit ''bureaucratic'')

Owners will use appropriate quarantine procedures when dealing with new animals or sick animals (either medically diagnosed or suspected sick animals prior to diagnosis)

(The only thing I can think of you saying for this is a separate habitat and the animal must be kept alone away from others. Or do you have a different approach?)

nicklamb · #9 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

Ok ive read it and i dont agree

1, who is going to tell me how to quarentine?
2, who is going to tell me what habitat i need
3, do you expect invert people to agree with that because i know a fair few who wont.
4, no payment~ who will pay for the webspace? the admin?
5, do you all declare your earnings to the tax man?

As for the other societies
they cant even agree on a code of practice with the rspca it has been said many times they will not unite. They can not condone anything like this with out being seen as one sided.
They have no weight were the rspca are concerned.

You have already said no to a committee which is absurd
it will not be democratically run at all and how can anyone tell someone how to keep a species if they have no knowledge of it
What makes one keeper better than another?

How can someone advise me how to keep a certain species if they have never kept it them selfs?

Nowhere does it suggest how you should do anything I suggest you read it properly and digest it before making a knee-jerk reaction.

It is a general code of ethics - it leaves the details up to the breeder. It is very similar to the ethics found in organisations such as the Kennel Club which I understand you are fully aware of.

This is about trying to do something for the greater good of the overall hobby which I would hope we all want to achieve.

If you do not want this to happen - just say so and let others make a meaningful contribution.

Lucifus · #10 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 07:01 PM

I find that the herpology in general is well.....divided. I don't think anything like this will take off, i personally wont be signing anything or agree with any sort of body. Even our basic ethics are different and we wont be able to get everyone or most people to agree on one thing.

View Poll Results: Would be prepared to sign - up to the proposal in this thread?
Yes	25	52.08%
No	16	33.33%
Not Sure	7	14.58%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode