In the thread: reptile shows & The law: Final Analysis, ; l wrote this:

"In defence, there are some excellent retailers out there in the UK already offering a very good service, perhaps workshops could be introduced?

One store that comes to light and has been quite controversial in its actions and educational programmes is Reptile Zone, and l am sure that there are others that can and if asked to can assist in workshop development?"

It has been suggested before that as 'we' have a small cash reserve we should utilise this to plan a landbased advertising campaign. I have said that these can be ruinously expensive if handled incorrectly.

However, if l refer to my quote, workshop development. I have spoken to a colleague about this concept further and we have come up with some ideas, and as such l would like to hear the views of both keepers and retailers [shops] alike and also the input from societies would be welcome.

I think that if we wish to spread the words of the future of our hobbies, then we need to do that at the core of our landbased industry - the core being the retailer, the shop front. Forums only attract a minimal 5% of the internet market of our fraternity's. We do have campaigns aimed at the internet market.

But we fervently need to follow this up with a landbased industrial campaign, this l believe can only be achieved by utilising the most powerful element we have at our disposal and this is of course the 'shop front'.

I am suggesting a nucleus of ten stores [reptile] that can agree to work alongside each other as the leading stores for workshop development for other reptile shops. In theory this sounds fine as a suggestion, in reality there may be difficulties due to competition and rivalry and internal politics.

The concept means that ten stores widely distributed around the United kingdom to form top level, and then associated stores affiliated to those ten lead stores. No different in many respects as to how other retail operators work with their flagships and their sub branches.

The reason for allocating just ten, is to make for an easier administrations system. It is easier for Pro Keepers Lobby to have ten stores administer to the campaign directly rather than 100. Ten stores would be responsible for some 20-30 outlets, perhaps more pending size.

This l believe amongst others, would be the most efficient and appropriate way for our hobby'[s] to move forwards - using the trade route. The Trade route has the most significant amount of traffic running through it of dedicated and passionate keepers exclusive to that specific area of retail.

It has long been suggested, that retail and politics do not go hand in hand. I feel this to be untrue, l feel that they have been lied to and have been given the wrong impression, and as such are slightly detached from the market that in reality pays for their staffing and ability to remain open in todays' political climate.

The retail outlet has a loyal following, and WE MUST UTILISE this to the fullest potential.

Using outlets for educational awareness via care sheets, husbandry guidance, legislation, politics, special open days and as my learned colleague quoted to me last night: "...........
so that we can raise and police our own hobby, encourage people to get licenses, work with authorities to raise reptile shop standards but together,

One major shop in every area, working as a cohesive team together raising the issues of standards, awareness and caresheets - this way - we would achieve more foundations for spreading the word than 100 of my posts on this forum.

So a basic concept, what are your views?

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby

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Sounds good in many ways, and in an ideal world could be a way forward. Its refreshing to hear public noises in support of the trade and the shops, and the part the good ones play rather than the often banded about "all shops are terrible" due to the poor ones letting the trade down. I have often made no secret that I feel that the busy, well run shops like my own are probably in a unique position in that they are in contact with thousands of animals, keepers and their mistakes, failures and their successes - masses of information can be collected to what works well for good captive husbandry for many species and what doesnt. It would be nice if more recognition could be given to the solid advice, given out by shops like my own based on this level of experiences - not just their own with a few reptiles, but thousands of experiences with millions of reptiles.

My own shop, even though I say it myself, has probably been one of the leading lights on educating customers and documenting it (for due diligence proceedures) as we have done this for over 10 years. What is now governed by the Animal Welfare Act 2006 we have implemented over 10 years ago. Many shops are not even aware of the obligations of the new Act and the things they need to do to comply - we have complied, over and above, to the same standards more or less since we opened - many years ago! Some of the newer shops have either had contact with Coast to Coast and have implemented similar proceedures after they have seen how succesful it is to running a good shop, or have had the sense to read the Animal Welfare Act and comply with it. So, I guess what I am saying is that my vast experience could be useful to a project like this. My new wholesale company set up last year supplies many shops nationwide. We have implemented for our trade customers a full back up service of help and advice. This stretches to full care sheets and labeling system they can use in their shops and for their customers. If they follow what we provide they are covering themselves under the new Act. As far as I can tell we are the only wholesaler to do this at the moment - take a look at our website Zoo Logic - Importer, exporter, breeder & supplier to the trade, pet shops & zoos.

Its now time for the negatives. Getting to choose ten shops will cause problems. Who decides which ones are worth the creditability to teach the others? Will the ones that feel left out be offended to the point of not wanting to be trained by the other shops? There are so many ways of keeping reptiles banded about, we all have our different methods - how do you get nationwide standards that all ten shops will agree to? What about the politics? Its widely known and accepted who doesnt like who in the reptile shop world. Just a few problems straight from the top of my head.

Just to give a different view point - how about pushing for the wholesalers to provide a similar level of service that Zoo Logic does? That means you are covering every shop in the UK, just through their suppliers. No more having to agree husbandry techniques, whos "governing" the set up, politics etc etc. The shop would then just have the opportunity to take the care sheets, lables, help and advice from what ever wholesaler they are happy with. At the moment, my company has a niche that is gaining me custom, so from a business point of view it sticks in my throat, but for the long term future of the hobby I could live with it if all the other wholesalers provided the same or similar.

Just some thoughts. if I can help further I will.

Kevin Stevens

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Coast to Coast Exotics www.coasttocoast.co.uk
Legendary reptile breeder and shop
Zoo Logic UK Ltd - Importer/exporter/wholesaler.
http://www.zoo-logic.co.uk/

Free to loving owner. Reptile shop owner (Coastius exoticus). Wild caught but tamed down well. Well behaved but can be a little excitable at times. Is litter trained and easy to look after. Dietery needs consists of Pizza and curry. Comes complete with own housing and other accessories. Pm for further details...............

I agree with Kevin on many of the points he has stated in his post, many shops do give a tremendous amount of effort in care and help as well as aiding reptiles not even bought in the store. This is never particularly mentioned on forums just the bad things. All shops can have bad days, thats just human. But i believe alot try there best.

In relation to the problem Kevin has mentioned with grading and such like maybe an idea is for the 10 shops which i believe is a starting point not some exclusive club, to meet and discuss minimum care and standards for a charter, so for instance, care sheets, cage labels, maybe checklists on all animals purchased, uv usage within the shop, thermostat usage.

I am sure basic care and guidelines could easily be used and agreed, there are a number of shops off the top of my head such as coast to coast already doing this kind of thing within there shop, and i believe its the traders who come into contact with more hobbiests than all of the forums put together so a good place to start.

Maybe kevin the shops that are initially interested could be the focal point within the area they are and help and encourage the shops in there area, so like a web it spreads from point to point. I think maybe a panel to do the admin would be good which is made up of 50% hobbiests and 50% traders to work together and hammer out the details. But anything which raises the care of reptiles can only be a good thing, education is for me the way forward along with a much greater sense of unity.

What about including societies and clubs in this idea? There are a great deal of passionate, committed, experienced and knowledgeable people within the various societies who may be able to offer assistance with this innitiative. I feel this could be an ideal opportunity for people to pull together for the hobby and having societies and the trade working together could have very positive results. ( yes Ive got my rose tinted glasses on this morning )
Just wanted to add a link to a post regarding similar sort of ideas being discussed earlier this year - not exactly the same but a few similar ideas in there. The reason is that there are a good few points raised in the discussion which are relevant to your suggestion, Rory.
Board Message
The topic died a death and only a handful of people showed interest which I can understand in a way as the original idea was probably a bit far fetched, but other suggestions came up within the thread which I believe are workable - like the care guides - similar to yours.

Now what about the care guides a lot of us produced for the FBH, I know many of us worked hard on thrashing out care guides to a formulae suggested by the FBH, why waste all of that work? I know there were a great deal of people involved. Would it not be possible to communicate with the FBH and for this group to work with them?

The other key area that could be addressed is sales policies, such as a checklist to work through with each customer upon sale of each reptile, to ensure each appropriate topic is discussed and understood and nothing forgotten. As Kev implements in his shop, Coast to Coast and we have developed our own similar tool ( originally based on similar tools I have utilised within nursing) at the Reptile Zone. It acts as proof that the shop is following the AWB guidelines and also is useful for the consumer.

I believe implementing these two key ideas could have a huge positive impact on reptile husbandry - if other shops listen and use them.

Hi Angi,

Good idea, and certainly worth delving further with.

Thankyou

Rory

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