Okay,

So we constantly criticise them?

Boys in blue!

Charity do gooders or political hunters?

Not doing the job properly......?

Or do they, but are simply not educated to the right degree when it comes to the exotic fraternities?

So in an ideal world, where do 'you' the keeper see the RSPCA in our future?

Should they be disbanded?

At a then risk that there would be hundreds of personnel into the unemployed market segment?

Or should they be...............what?

Are we ever going to be in a position where RSPCA and Exotic community can work side by side?

So tell me in a world where we may have a choice, what would you see done with the RSPCA?

Rory Matier

Pro Keepers Lobby

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My personal experience of the RSPCA as they need to be disbanded asap, unfortunately with the new AWA most local authorities are looking to them to enforce it and prosecute as they don't have the manpower or funds to do so themselves.

They are too quick to want to intimidate, Uniforms and ranks just like the police, I think its no coincidence they call their ground workers 'inspectors', they train to gain entry and remove animals with intimidation tactics. I got told 'I can come back with the police and then YOU'LL have to let me in' I replied 'go ahead luvvie I'll get the bacon butties ready but you are a charity worker and have no right to enter my property without my permission'

For any animal welfare issues I believe we should be like the USA in that their workers are government employees who are regulated by the laws of the land and have legally given powers of removal, prosecution etc. WE need to educate people of the appalling conditions and actions the RSPCA take in the name of cruelty prevention, their refusal to deal directly with pedigree breed rescues be it dogs or cats. Their practise of rehoming animals that ended up pregnant in THEIR care or known escapee's who can be picked up on the streets time and again despite the new owners efforts to keep them a secure garden, great money spinner that at £90 per time adoption fee!

If the RSPCA gets disbanded, who is going to rescue/take in etc all the unwanted, lost, abandoned hurt animals that they do now?

I believe higher degree of education and training is needed for their 'officers'.

And maybe they could do public liason with 'pet' owners to gain a knowledge of our views, practices etc?

I just think it needs to be better informed and better run

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1.2 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
2.2 Amazon Tree Boas
1.0 Rosy Boa
0.1 Royal Python
0.1 Borneo Blood Python
0.1 Chilean Rose
0.0.1 Honduran Curly Hair
0.1 Green Iguana
1.0 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Emperor Scorps

Computer says no

mmm, where to start?

We are all against cruelty to animals, and on this forum to Reptiles and amphibs and inverts.

However, its the way we go about it that matters.

I have no doubt whatsoever that those RSPCA inspectors on the ground do what they belive to be in the animals interest.

They have a job to do, they have to do it in the way they are trained.

Its that training that is in question, the aims of the training, the reasons, the goal.

Lets face it, the RSPCA very own care guide for Leopard Geckos clearly states that calci sand is digestable ! Reserach has shown time and time again that its not. So, here we have a society, see in many peoples eyes as the protector of animals, openly suggesting using a potential killer substrate.

Why?

Is it that they dont know?

Is it because they WANT to come across situations of suffering? Will an impacted leo cause someone , somewhere to donate more cash?

Is it that thier advisors are wrong? who are the advisors? Why do these advisors give advice?

Why is it that the RSPCA seem to cross swords with reptile societies rather than feed off the expertise these societies have?

I say that using the collective RSPCA, I know of inspectors who are only to willing to listen and learn from us.

But this istelf leads to problems. My local inspector, having learnt all about the percentage volume of calci sand that is not digestable, either has to openly disagree with the 'official' advice or knowingly give and stand by incorrect info.

I am sure the way forward is proper responsible societies who give the right advice, care and support to all members and to the likes of the RSPCA, who then use that resource to aid them in ensuring the protection of our animals. Working together as a team.

2 goals : Education and welfare.

This all assumes of course that the RSPCA do acknowledge that in general reptiles can be kept as 'pets' with the correct equipment, or do they indeed belive that they are totally incompatable with humans. if so, why?

If the former is true, yes, I belive they and us can live and work together to ensure the future wellbeing of our animals.

If the latter is true, then, no we will never see eye to eye, and right now, I see them (and thier buddies) squaring up for a battle.

Tony

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www.purejurrasic.com
www.tarantulabarn.com
www.petshomealone.co.uk
8.24.12 leopard geckos
1.0.0 Pictus geckos
2.6.3 Fat tails
1.3.0 cave gecko G. Luii
1.2.0 Malayan forest geckos
2.3.0 Corns
1.3.0 Common Boas
0.0.1 Honduran Boa
0.0.1 Costa rican Boa
1.1.0 Disputed Corn Island Boas
2.2.1 Bribrons Gecko
7.3.0 Fan Foot Geckos
4.6.0 Marble Geckos

I think it about time ht eRSPCA actually held thier hands up and told the public that they NEED more training ofr thier staff, they NEED more people on side who have experience with exotics, they NEED to know how ot take hte first steps into working with keepers instead of against them.

Disbanded - maybe but only if a system could take htier place where the intimidation tactics, the militant heirarchy, the total bulls*it they often spout stopped.

I actually watched osme of the RSPCA's programme on channel 5 last night and was amazed to hear one of thier "officers" state on ntional telly "we have no legal right to enter a property and rmeove animals unless ther eis a police officer present and a vet who will sign paperwork to say the animal is suffering!!"

To say I was shocked was an understatement.

The RSPCA need to go back tot hier roots - too the time before Queen Victoria decided to affiliate them with the Royal family and the itme when the protection of animals was at the forefront of thier minds.

Protection is not what they do any more - they preach about rights which they don't enforce within thier own centres and farms, they care more about prosecution figures thant hey do of the rising destruciton figures that come out of htier offices each year and they care mor ebaout thier ridiculously huge bank reserve than they do in fundng thier centres so they can have properly trained staff for ALL fields of pet keeping.

(<<< goes off to put soapbox back lol)

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The RSPCA need to be educated pure and simple, but then so do many animal keepers.

The majority of the AWA is correct and decent and is there to protect the welfare of the animals it was created for... however we are talking WELFARE. The RSPCA officer needs to be able to ascertain whether or not an animal is being kept in such a way as to cause it suffering... or not.

At the moment, with the Codes of Practice being bandied about... all they are interested in are the very basics. How big is the vivarium, do you have guards on the heating, does it have fresh water, are you feeding it live food, is there faeces and shed skin lying about in the viv, does the snake have mites... All this is very basic stuff... and if it is wrong then you do not deserve to be keeping the animal and you deserve to lose it.

But this tells you nothing about the welfare of the animal...

Does the RSPCA inspector know what temperature and humidity levels each species should be kept at ?

Does the RSPCA inspector know what scale rot looks like ?

Does the RSPCA inspector know what a respiratory infection looks and sounds like ?

Does the RSPCA inspector know what mouth rot looks like ?

Is the RSPCA inspector capable of checking the animal over for any of these things or will the be too scared of the animal to do so ?

Now given that a vast number of keepers do not know the answers to all these questions, it's a fair bet that the RSPCA inspector who has not received any training is not going to know either.

The AWA is policed by the LOCAL AUTHORITY... it is NOT policed by the RSPCA. We should, as a hobby led by the FBH, be talking to the Local Authorities ourselves and telling them that the RSPCA do not know about keeping reptiles or amphibians in captivity. Maybe that way, when something is reported with regard to a reptile being kept, the RSPCA will not be their first port of call to assist them.

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http://www.herpcare.org.uk - Herpetocultural Care Guides


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This is an extremely difficult question to answer because of all the variables. From the earliest days there has been genuine, good people trying hard to help animals and be fair to keepers, right from the very lowest ranks and almost up to the very highest ranks.
Sadly the whole society now appears to be littered with animal rights activists, political nutters, do gooders and jobs worths who are all competing with each other to see who knows the least about the job they are supposed to be doing. Couple this with enough cash in their bank account to buy a medium size country and you start to get something that can rival Adolph and his Nazi party when it comes to being a power mad dictatorship ready to destroy anything or one that stands between them and their ideal world.
Personally I feel that the rot within has gone too far and the only way forward is to start a new organisation, with new people and proper safe measures in place to stop anything like the current situation ever happening again.
Give the country a new genuine, open, animal welfare group, with fully trained staff to support and get the activities of the RSPCA right out there in the public domain and I believe lack of donations will quickly bring this abhorrence to an end.
Gordon
Gives Brittone05 back the soap box and says thanks for the loan

I do say in my post that a system similar to the USA one which is government controlled and trained with legall authority would be a better way forward.

Agreed.

From talking to my Local Authority, they are under the impression that RSPCA inspectors are highly trained in all the animals covered by the AWA. It would come as quite a shock if they realised how little the RSPCA actually know about these animals.

Another school of thought of course is for people that ARE knowledgeable in these areas to join the RSPCA and help out.

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http://www.happinet.co.uk - Host your web site for less than the price of a pint of beer a week. Further 10% off for RFUK'ers... No programming required and No Compulsory Adverts

i think about it like this...
i do agree with the rising amount of reptiles kept they should be covered in any training they do to educate their officers even if its just the bare minimum needs of the snake and is in good health
but if RSPCA officer says you need calci sand and UV lighting for leopard geckos and a 6ft cage with UV lighting for a ball python but it going against what you have been told by other keepers and in books or you think countless toys for your breeder rats are a gimmick and they do well with just a wheel for excercise and maybe some chew things to keep their teeth down...who is the right person?
is it also considered creulty to endanger the life of your animals and would they be made accountable for any ill health from the advice they gave? as why risk your pets health when so easily prevented with using another substrate and knowing that small surroundings help nervous snakes feed better

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leethal_bite@hotmail.com....