I read in the paper today that studies into marine inverts PROVE that they feel pain. for example A trace amount of acid was dripped onto the antennae of a prawn and the result was that the subject rubbed that area for as long as five minutes. and though i know this study shows that boiling a crab alive or indeed dropping acid onto a prawns face is now more or less proved to cause pain.

How long before the wrong people put 2 & 2 together and get otters?

obviously being members of the invert family they are related to what many of our beloved pets consider food.

I just started my stopwatch, it'll switch off when the Shizzle starts to hit the fan.

any guesses as to how long that may be?

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My name's Dave. like everybody else on this forum.

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Yesterdays news is todays substrate.

what will we do when it goes further and they prove cabbages feel pain?? eat rocks??
gaz

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i don't give a flying stuff if a lobster feels it when I cook it. Likiewise if i'm ever eaten by a lion I won't be surprised if it hurts.

the food chain is a reality, I think it's day that these days people are unable to cope with it.

Mason

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It's ridiculous really. What do they think creatures such as tarantula's eat in the wild??? Imitation inverts?

Stupid bloody people!!

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have to say yes, this has already been a near miss..

speaking to friends in retail down my end of the UK.. they supply 100's of 1000s of livefood items to other traders up and down the country..

they told me last year that there had been a threat that inverts were going to classed as "pets" which would have meant you could no longer use them as feeders for your lizards.. nor could you send them in the royal mail or by standard courier anymore.

they don't actually have to ban reptile keeping you know.. all they have to do is change enough little laws.. for what the public will see is good reasons..(i.e not causing a life form pain, or housing things in adequate set ups.. remember we might think a film case is cool for a small spider.. but would the majority of the voting public? probably not..)

if they take away the ability to feed our lizards.. how could we then keep them, without being able to feed them? sure people could breed their own livefood.. but you would be still subject to classing them as pets and all that comes with it.. you could catch wild insect food.. but how many of us really have the time to do that - looking at some keepers with 20+ geckos.. imagine catching enough to feed them!

likewise.. if say they outlawed film cases for young spiders.. what would the T keepers use then?

they are not going for an outright ban.. what they are doing is neatly chipping away at the basic way we can feed and house our exotics.. once they make it hard enough.. they won't need to ban it..

say.. they DO go ahead and prosecute people if their snakes are not in a viv that allows them to lay fully out.. that means a 10ft boa.. would need a 10ft viv.. how many of the boa keepers on this forum actually have the space to house ALL their boas in enclosures that are as long as they are? i know i don't thats for sure! and how about corns? the standard size most people have for an adult corn is 3ft-4ft.. could every corn keeper on this forum actually say they had the money and space to change all the vivs to 5ft-6ft ones? i doubt it very much.

we all know a 10ft boa does not NEED a 10ft viv.. but you can see how the principle could be sold to people.. and in truth yes, most 10ft boas would probably enjoy a 10ft viv, if it was set up correctly.. the princicple of giving them adequate space in captivity is a very popular one amongst the general public.. you only have to look at the ways zoos have changed over the last 50 years to see that.

at the moment, they are slowly working on making it harder and harder to keep reptiles, and stay within the law (their law that is!) the harder they make it to conform, the more people will stop keeping.. as people stop keeping, we lose the support base.. as that happens we lose the power of numbers.. the shops make less money, the hobby becomes more insular.. it will split into those who go "underground" and those who struggle to remain above ground.. keepers and keeping groups will fragment..

add to this the fact they are trying to either ban, or at the least heavily regulate internet selling of animals.. and we all know they are trying to ban shows.. add to that the mounting support for banning pet shop sales.. and where does it leave the keeper? up the swaney without a boat, let alone a paddle..

at the moment, we are seeing a slow but worryingly steady chipping away at the foundations of private animal keeping.. they don't have to ban it outright.. given the way things are going.. come the time our children grow up, they will have suceeded in just making to too damn awkward to keep exotics for most to cope with.

N

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Many posts and discussions here have shown, with previous confirmation from animal welfare and legal institutions, that it is not currently illegal to feed live vertebrates to reptiles, as long as it is considered necessary, and is not for entertainment purposes.

As they have not even implemented a ban of feeding cute bunnies and pet rats to snakes.... I would think they would go for this victory before attempting to validate it for insects.

Then what will be next, will it be illegal to catch insects wild and kill them? Perhaps it will be illegal to pour boiling water down ant hills or destroy wasps nests if invertebrates suddenly have rights against being killed.

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Surely they couldn't legalise this? They're not just putting the pet business out of business but also pest control companies..if killing inverts becomes illegal as they're seen as pets..how the hell do u get rid of a wasp net or a cockraoch infestation if you got one?? Or would these not be classed as pets??? N if so does that not opent hte loop hole of feeding wild inverts?

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good point, what will they class as pests and pets?

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Royal python Savannah

Good grief....

How have we gone from AR groups wanting to outlaw the feeding of live invertebrates to viewing a cockroach infestation as pets ? This place never ceases to amaze me.

If you have a tarantula that you keep as a pet, they want it protected under the AWA because IT IS IN YOUR CARE !

If you have a hissing cockroach that you keep as a pet, they want it protected under the AWA because IT IS IN YOUR CARE !

If you buy crickets as food for your lizard, then they do not want this to happen since the crickets are IN YOUR CARE and therefore should be protected by the AWA.

If you have a cockroach infestation in your kitchen, or a wasp nest in your loft... then these are not in your care, you never paid for them or brought them into your house and they would be dealt with in exactly the same way as they are now. Even with mammals, I do not think that a wild rat that has found its way into your house will be given quite the same AWA protection as a pet one you bought from a shop.... do you ?

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