Hi,

I am in search for your responses here.

The following poll is aimed at campaigns we are curently reviewing and one of which is active, l am looking for results to find out which of the folowing campaigns mean more to the readership present within this forum.

In other words, what or which means more to you as a keeper.

It is a multichoice poll.

Many Thanks
Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby

Key:

Focas on Unification 1:

In principal is looking at the unification between all the fraternities.

Focus on Society 2:

In principal is looking at the reasons for the low memberships that currently hamper the keeping societies in the United Kingdom

Retail Aid 3:

In principal is to look at creating an administration for retailers within the United Kingdom to be united under one flagship with a view to supplying them with a constant supply of legislational information, care sheet supply, codes of conduct and so on.

Vendors UK 4:

Looks at and into the number of unregulated sellers within the United Kingdom.

Tomorrows Keepers 5:

Are we doing enough for the young keepers of today with a view to their keeping exotic companion animals in the future.

European Protected Species 6:

This indeed is an active campaign, and many of you will be all too familiar with the posts on this and many other forums about this piece of legislation introduced this year, 13 years after it was introduced into Europe.

Skunk Descenting 7:

earlier this year legislation [secondary] was passed meaning that it was now considered unlawful/illegal to descent entire skunks.

Private Keepers' Licence 8:

The lift of the 33 species off the DWAL - Dangerous Wild Animals Licence this year has meant that many species are now 'unregulated' by DEFRA - many keepers believe that although the licence did not do the right job to begin with has opened up a host of problems for now and the future of keeping exotic companion animals. A licence is being called for on many species that would be better served for the exotics keeper.

The Primates & Keepers' Right 9:

Should primates be kept in private hands, restricted or be banned?

Lobbying The Opposition & Worthy of Investigation 10:

Should we be looking more into the RSPCA and all those that oppose in the same degreee as they indeed look upon us.

While all of the above are important for me as a keeper, I didn't mark 3 and 4 because I simply do not know enough and understand enough about the retail and vendoring side of things.

I do have a special interest in learning more and doing more rgarding tomorrow's keepers and again after reading a lot of information, about Lobbying the Opposition and Worthy of Investigation. Also have a keen interest in skunk descenting issues and how the AWa affects it

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Focas on Unification 1: In principal is looking at the unification between all the fraternities.

Yep.

Focus on Society 2: In principal is looking at the reasons for the low memberships that currently hamper the keeping societies in the United Kingdom

No. Surely this is for the societies to work out for themselves.


Retail Aid 3: In principal is to look at creating an administration for retailers within the United Kingdom to be united under one flagship with a view to supplying them with a constant supply of legislational information, care sheet supply, codes of conduct and so on.

Definately. This should be No 1 priority

Vendors UK 4: Looks at and into the number of unregulated sellers within the United Kingdom.

Why ? We have no power to do anything about it so why waste resources ?


Tomorrows Keepers 5: Are we doing enough for the young keepers of today with a view to their keeping exotic companion animals in the future.

Education... Education... Education...


European Protected Species 6: This indeed is an active campaign, and many of you will be all too familiar with the posts on this and many other forums about this piece of legislation introduced this year, 13 years after it was introduced into Europe.

What is happening with this ? So far we have seen two responses from Natural England, one to Devboy and one to Ssthisto both of which told us nothing ( Not Devs or PKL's fault, just the wording of the response ) ...

Skunk Descenting 7: earlier this year legislation [secondary] was passed meaning that it was now considered unlawful/illegal to descent entire skunks.

No opinion

Private Keepers' Licence 8: The lift of the 33 species off the DWAL - Dangerous Wild Animals Licence this year has meant that many species are now 'unregulated' by DEFRA - many keepers believe that although the licence did not do the right job to begin with has opened up a host of problems for now and the future of keeping exotic companion animals. A licence is being called for on many species that would be better served for the exotics keeper.

No. No way should a keepers licence be issued. It should be down to the sellers to ensure that they sell their animals to appropriate buyers and down to the buyers to educate themselves on the animals they purchase before they do so. Again... all about research and correct care.

The Primates & Keepers' Right 9: Should primates be kept in private hands, restricted or be banned?

No Opinion.

Lobbying The Opposition & Worthy of Investigation 10: Should we be looking more into the RSPCA and all those that oppose in the same degree as they indeed look upon us.

No. What good would it do ? All it achieved last time was the RSPCA refused to work with the hobby.



To add an extra one :

Correct Care 11: Should we be looking into setting up educational material on the keeping of various species and getting it out to the public via courses and shops rather than spending time fighting battles against the antis which let's face it.... we will lose.

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I agree totally with your number 11, i thik it is a key point, however, it is to some extant, IMO covered in the afformentioned points.

jay

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keeper of:lizards, geckos, snakes, beetles and other insects

I voted 2, 3, 4, 8, 10.

I feel that 2 - the problem of low society membership - is something that definitely needs addressing. If more people were involved, it would be easier and more streamlined to spread information, and it may be possible to actually organise co-ordinated responses to things - e.g. expressing opposition to proposed changes etc.

3 is definitely something worth looking at. As with 2, the more people (in this case retailers) that can be grouped together and informed, the more potentially powerful the body will become. As retailers are the sole link between a lot of keepers and the rest of the exotic world, it would make sense that retailers should be as up to date as possible - whether it be on husbandry practises, legislation etc. If retailers know that there are proposed changes, and they are given a means to advertise opposition to it, we would most likely see a dramatic increase in the number of people actually interested in opposing/agreeing with the change.

4 should be addressed and encouraged by ourselves, if only to remove some of the ammunition that the antis currently have - if we are pushing for tighter control of ourselves, that will hopefully send out a positive message. When I first started breeding, I was on the phone to the council to see if there was any inspection procedure, or even registration that I had to go through. They had no desire to inspect or regulate me, and was told that as long as I am only breeding "a few hundred animals" per year, and they are reptiles, not dogs/cats etc, and I don't own a commercial shop premises, they are not interested. Personally, I find that appalling! Even if councils have no interest in regulating it, I would like there to be some kind of independent body which sellers can "opt into", be inspected etc - if it was large enough, it would hopefully gain enough credibility that it became a nationwide standard - decent pet shops would only buy from "approved" breeders, and people who are up to date would also look out for this when buying privately. Obviously, it would be a logistical nightmare to setup, especially if it was nationwide. This could be something that is encouraged amongst societies - each society has a list of breeders/sellers that are "approved" by some generally-agreed-upon criteria, which it makes freely available.

The point I am least interested in is 7. I don't feel it is right for PKL or whoever to just focus specifically on one fairly minor species, and one issue within the species, especially when there are much larger problems/potential problems. I am slightly reluctant to say this, for fear of it being taken the wrong way, but it could also be interpreted as you and Nerys having a secret agenda. For Nerys particularly, skunks are clearly important, and there are clear implications now with regard to breeding etc. I don't know if either of you breed skunks, but obviously with the descenting rules, the market has effectively been closed down.

I am not for one minute suggesting that there is a conflict of interests there, but if PKL decided to start taking fees etc, I would not be happy if a disproportionate amount of those fees were spent on campaigns about an animal that very few people within the exotic industry have any contact with, and that many of the top people within PKL may have a vested interest in. I could see that putting off a lot of other people as well.

Just my thoughts.

Andy

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Focas on Unification 1: In principal is looking at the unification between all the fraternities.

maybes

Focus on Society 2: In principal is looking at the reasons for the low memberships that currently hamper the keeping societies in the United Kingdom

no, it is up to societies to sort them selves out, but it clearly aint working the way they are


Retail Aid 3: In principal is to look at creating an administration for retailers within the United Kingdom to be united under one flagship with a view to supplying them with a constant supply of legislational information, care sheet supply, codes of conduct and so on.

i think so, and improving care guides education and how animals are sold

Vendors UK 4: Looks at and into the number of unregulated sellers within the United Kingdom.

dont see the point


Tomorrows Keepers 5: Are we doing enough for the young keepers of today with a view to their keeping exotic companion animals in the future.

probably not, but then most reptile organisations arent into education just the politics


European Protected Species 6: This indeed is an active campaign, and many of you will be all too familiar with the posts on this and many other forums about this piece of legislation introduced this year, 13 years after it was introduced into Europe.

no idea, nobody seems to be in the know

Skunk Descenting 7: earlier this year legislation [secondary] was passed meaning that it was now considered unlawful/illegal to descent entire skunks.

who knows

Private Keepers' Licence 8: The lift of the 33 species off the DWAL - Dangerous Wild Animals Licence this year has meant that many species are now 'unregulated' by DEFRA - many keepers believe that although the licence did not do the right job to begin with has opened up a host of problems for now and the future of keeping exotic companion animals. A licence is being called for on many species that would be better served for the exotics keeper.

the primary responsibiliity is the shop or breeder, the secondary being the keeper which i think should be educated by the sellers, criteria of sale would be much better, how would you enforce it,
The Primates & Keepers' Right 9: Should primates be kept in private hands, restricted or be banned?

difficult one, but they should defo have to join some organisation, i prefer restricted not banned, but only to people who actually do have an idea

Lobbying The Opposition & Worthy of Investigation 10: Should we be looking more into the RSPCA and all those that oppose in the same degree as they indeed look upon us.

no point at all, they are who they are

[quote=TSKA Rory Matier;989791]

Focas on Unification 1:

In principal is looking at the unification between all the fraternities.

agreed it would help the hobbie no end if we all pitched together rather then challanging certain specific areas of legisliation.

Focus on Society 2:

In principal is looking at the reasons for the low memberships that currently hamper the keeping societies in the United Kingdom

i belive that this is due to societal impression, maybe extra information provided to peopl unaware of exotic animal keeping could be useful but its subjective to the individual.

Retail Aid 3:

In principal is to look at creating an administration for retailers within the United Kingdom to be united under one flagship with a view to supplying them with a constant supply of legislational information, care sheet supply, codes of conduct and so on.

totally agree

Vendors UK 4:

Looks at and into the number of unregulated sellers within the United Kingdom.

again toatlly agree, if we have the right to do so.

Tomorrows Keepers 5:

Are we doing enough for the young keepers of today with a view to their keeping exotic companion animals in the future.

The more information that can be passed on the better the hobbie will become.

European Protected Species 6:

This indeed is an active campaign, and many of you will be all too familiar with the posts on this and many other forums about this piece of legislation introduced this year, 13 years after it was introduced into Europe.

Its a usefull piece of legislation in theory tho has far to many problems.hole in it at the moment, and imo was rushed out by DEFRA before investigation the matter corrently and in the right depths.

Skunk Descenting 7:

earlier this year legislation [secondary] was passed meaning that it was now considered unlawful/illegal to descent entire skunks.

Knowing little about skunk keeping and the prcedure i feel unable to comment

Private Keepers' Licence 8:

The lift of the 33 species off the DWAL - Dangerous Wild Animals Licence this year has meant that many species are now 'unregulated' by DEFRA - many keepers believe that although the licence did not do the right job to begin with has opened up a host of problems for now and the future of keeping exotic companion animals. A licence is being called for on many species that would be better served for the exotics keeper.

I belive too many species were lifted, particualary primates.

The Primates & Keepers' Right 9:

Should primates be kept in private hands, restricted or be banned?

it should be controlled. However, this should be done by the seller. So imo it is the sellers which whouls have tighter controls. Primates should only be kept when adaquate housing can be provided. It is IMO up to the seller to assure this in dealing with such sensertive animals

Lobbying The Opposition & Worthy of Investigation 10:

Should we be looking more into the RSPCA and all those that oppose in the same degreee as they indeed look upon us.

yes the RSPCA needs to be moneitered and as currently there is no governement body doing so, i belive it is up to us to fight for one.

Jay

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keeper of:lizards, geckos, snakes, beetles and other insects

I would be interested in anything to do with education mainly, I think keepers should prove that they know the basics before taking on an animal. So some sort of education programme ran by societies, retailers, collages, vets etc. Implementing something along these lines could also ensure that retailers, colleges etc are working along the same lines with education, helping to regulate the hobby somewhat. But then I believe this is a dream and possibly not a realistic one either, because up to now no one has actually got off their backsides to do much about it. How long have the FBH been supposedly working on basic care guides to be used in shops etc? They had lots of the work done for them, but 2 years or more on and I cant see any evidence of any moves forward with this initiative, yet so many passionate and knowledgeable people put time and effort into the drafts that they forwarded to the FBH. I would personally be willing to give up a couple of hours every week to work on this, as a volunteer, but then finding enough people who are passionate about a subject and able/willing to give time/input to a project is not easy, Ive tried it so many times over the last few years and not many people stay committed. Anyway enough waffle about that - I'm obviously very eager to improve animal care through education.

I would rather be involved with conservation projects than most of the other projects mentioned.
I love being able to keep pets, but at the end of the day there are so many things in life that I would rather fight for, causes that are more worthy to me such as starving or abused people or trying to help with conservation projects. Maybe this is a factor for the so called "apathy" of people who do not go to shows or become involved in the politics side of the hobby. We have to keep things in perspective and realise that people have very active lives these days and all too often, very little spare time. So when faced with getting involved with political stuff which often goes no where, I for one do not blame people for choosing to support other causes, surely Im not the only person on here with more than one hobby/interest.
I would support some initiatives, but within reason and also depending on tactics employed. I for one am not a fan of sensationalising or scare mongering to get a point across, I believe there are other ways to get points across and you cannot force people into getting involved.

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I voted on Vendors UK and Skunk Descenting - not neccessarily because I believe the PKL can do more about these issues than any others listed, or that they are more important, but they are the closest to my heart.

I am deeply concerned about the future of skunk keeping/breeding in the UK, how many "backstreet cutters" will begin descenting litters, and how many will we lose in the process? I'm sure Rory that you already understand why these issues are close to my heart.

As for Vendors.. can we really do anything about the numbers of unlicensed, unscrupulous and unregulated sellers operating in the UK? I dont know...
Would I like something to be done? Of course!

Having seen the conditions some of these animals are brought into the country in.. (again I am mostly thinking skunks, but it is true of many species) something needs to be done on some level. I would love to see self-regulation of the hobby and less reliance on draconian legislation.

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anyone ever smelt an un-desecented skunk?

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