Since the changes earlier this year to the DWA, do you think anything has changed drastically, are the changes playing into the anti's hands like what was thought, I know its a bit early at the moment, but do you think there has been a big increase in exotic animals being sold.

Rory have you seen an increase in people approaching you trying to get ex DWA primates and other animals?

__________________

Well, I feel like Ive had a 100 people asking for help with non feeding Mangroves and hardly any of the people who contacted me or Pete had much idea about how to look after them never mind feed them. So Im feeling rather negative about it all at the moment.
Have you seen how many primates are for sale too? Tonnes and many sold on their own too, I know little about primates but I thought they were sociable creatures and thrived with company - am I wrong?

__________________
A few of my images - http://anginelson.deviantart.com/

Stuff the diet, I NEEEED to eat my favourite foods for a while, lol.

My CrittersBoiga blandingiBoiga nigricepsBoiga cyaneaCrested GeckosUroplatus fimbriatusReed frogSnow spotted Bengal catSugar gliders

they definately need company I know very little about them as well to be honest but know enough to know they are very sociable animals.

I havnt really looked at it at all, I just wondered about it tonight.

I knew mangroves are a pain to get feeding as a guy I know owned some and had to really persist with loads of techniques before getting them feeding, and people just bringing in WC adults is a recipe for disaster with this species.

__________________

Since the changes earlier this year to the DWA, do you think anything has changed drastically, are the changes playing into the anti's hands like what was thought, I know its a bit early at the moment, but do you think there has been a big increase in exotic animals being sold.

Rory have you seen an increase in people approaching you trying to get ex DWA primates and other animals?

Hi Si,

The removal of 33 species from the DWAL was a movement that would and is playing into the hands of those whom oppose the keeping of animals anyway, let alone what were classed as Dangerous Wild Animals. Which l feel sure they would have considered drastic in itself.

However, we are only 4 days into December and 65 days into the actual removal from the licence of the species themselves, so in many ways still very early.

You must remember it was not just the removal which was going to upset but also the actions that followed afterwards, and it is those issues that would be longer lasting that l always refered to. Bad husbandry, inadequate housing facilities, lack of traceability from seller to new buyer, etc.

Yes and no to people approaching for ex DWA primates and others. Capuchins were never lifted off, and never will be, but more people want now what they still can not get hold of.

People grumble about the new prices of ex dwa livestock. In some cases they would be right to and in others not. Surprisingly enough, l am often stunned by mammal buyers who complain at the costs of mammals. I have recently talked to several reptile keepers and they have told me what their collections are worth, and recently l have seen expenditures from other reptile keepers. What l find amazing is that mammal keepers expect prices on mammals to be lower, yet reptile keepers at times expect them to be higher and have no real difficulty with hearing the prices.

I think it ironic that reptile keepers at times spend so much higher finances on reptiles, in overall purchase price and running costs than a mammal keeper ever has to!

There are not that many medium to large sized mammals being sold at present, a few Racoons, a few Coatis, TSKA have more Kinkajous on board than we have ever handled. As said with the removal, now people want what has not been removed, lol!!

Well, I feel like Ive had a 100 people asking for help with non feeding Mangroves and hardly any of the people who contacted me or Pete had much idea about how to look after them never mind feed them. So Im feeling rather negative about it all at the moment.

Have you seen how many primates are for sale too? Tonnes and many sold on their own too, I know little about primates but I thought they were sociable creatures and thrived with company - am I wrong?

Classic case, non feeders, l don't know snakes, l don't need to, all l need to see is that one line, 'not much awarded information' and there we go, Angi its not just snakes, l too have had calls like this.

Primates for sale, well don't forget the scammers, they are extremely rife. The primate market is low, but you are right about people selling primates into the wrong hands in singles. This is appalling, and this will be just one movement that will cease the keeping of Primates in the UK unless it is regulated.

The licence was not the best to begin with, it was about public safety and not so much on husbandry. But it was still a regulation, it was still a form of control. Now with nothing for so many species off it, it will prove to be damning and it will be just one link that will destroy animal keeping for the future of exotic animal keepers.

Damn to those who consulted about these species coming off, damnations to you and l mean that whole heartily, it was a fool hardy move, and whilst the best intentions may have originally been thought out, you should have had a secondary licencing in place and situ to take the place for these species.

Primates should NOT have come off, all the species [including marmosets] should have been placed and stayed on and not moved off. It is not about the danger these species may project to the public, it should have been considered about how much bloody danger many of the species are in now, with sellers who do not give a flying sh*t about how the species are being maintained!

So Si, as you can see, l am still none the happier about the DWA changes. We need a licence for private keepers in place for many of the species we have in the market and PKl will be looking into this.

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby

__________________

any animal is dangerous if mis treated by the human animal who owns it..

yes, even skunks !!

sure, the DWA was there to protect the public, but until there is a REALISTIC law which protects the animals, which i and many other do NOT consider the AWA to be, the dwa was perhaps better than nothing.

the more animals come off the dwa, the more open to attack by the antis we become. if we, as people who care what we keep, cannot self police ourselves, then something needs to be in place.

i can see it now.. 12 months down the line, when a small child is injured by an animal who was just taken off, the headlines the rspca would treat us too....

don't get me wrong, i think the dwa sucks in the main, but what else is there? NOTHING.

and yes, there are many keepers who have benefited from some animals being lifted...

but whose perspective should we be thinking of it from??

N

__________________

dont see any problems in Holland where pretty much everything is off ticket,do we have a particular British problem with recieving some greater freedom??
regards gaz

__________________
captive bred boas and tree boas a speciality

http://www.gazboas.co.uk

Agent V is a funky lumberjackwith a funky lumberjacks outfit(in black)

Gaz,

Again l know where you are coming from, but this is not about Freedom of the nature you talk of, although you will respond with the freedom to keep what we want comments.

They would be fair points....but

The argument here is about the keepers' ability to keep the animals of their choice, yes, but they must do so in a responsible manner, everything for the species they maintain must be accurate, everything must be acceptable, in order to continue the freedom to keep exotics.

With way too many sellers not giving a damn accept how much green will pass their hands - the removal of certain species from the licence has meant that more damage is being done by non responsible keepers to a new age of keepers. These new age keepers who have more money than common sense!

And if we talk of freedom, we should also talk of a certain amount of captive freedom. If animals are kept by responsible and caring owners, then the freedom they have to be maintained by the latter will be superb.

But let us look at the bigger issue.

Primates, how many sellers out there give a damn about whom they are selling to? And if primates are sold into the wrong hands, the wrong keepers then what ‘freedom’ do these animals experience, the right habitats, the right diet, stimulation’s, etc?

Do they live an enriched and rewarding life?

In many cases, no.

The freedom to keep species, is becoming restricted, the wrong keepers with the wrong animals will greatly reduce our freedoms to keep exotic animals in all of our futures.

WHY, do l keep on harping about primates on a reptile board?

Simple, these are a highly politically sensitive species – there are few such species that are treated with such political sensitivity. Keepers need to stop thinking about the bloody ‘now’ and start thinking about the sodden future!

If the ability to keep primates is ceased and tbh, despite what some people may say, l think that this is one such species that could be seriously restricted if not banned. If they do this and win, heaven knows where they will attack next.

In a few years time, sales of today into the wrong hands will reflect very badly in the future of keeping species tomorrow.

And that will restrict the great British freedom, especially when it comes to keeping exotics – be that reptiles or mammals.

If these codes of practice do not appear soon, then our opposition will have the upper hand, and once they have achieved that, and they will, they will start to win cases hands down. With very little regulation, or control over what keepers are keeping, then we will not have to worry about what the opposition does, for it will not be them that destroys our freedom to keep, it will be us.

We have shown time and time again, that we are more than capable of achieving that.

R

__________________