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06-10-2008, 05:52 PM
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 Many are still also still bred as cross breeds which keeps them a long way from registration - and i believe that the purpose they were bred for - was a failed experiment as the none shedding ness can not be guaranteed and the temperaments of many were not as suitable as other breeds/ mixes already used. 
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06-10-2008, 05:58 PM
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06-10-2008, 06:32 PM
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Sorry can't do multiple quotes but here goes.
now, i would like you all to consider this. somewhere in the past, some dogs were the initial registration, meaning they we're assessed as breed standards and joined the club without their parents being registered (eg when KC was first opened). This does happen and they ARE allowed into the registration database when its deemed necessary and REQUESTED BY BREED CLUBS, so its not just when the KC began that dogs were vetted for breed type to be allowed in ITS HAPPENING NOW. Parson Russell Terriers for instance had an 'open registry' only a couple of years ago to increase the Gene pool of breed types ------- something Jemima Harrison and her witch hunt forgot to mention. All pedigree breeds where Labradoodles at one point.Labradoodle though new where bred for a purpose like all pedigrees.Labradoodles was created as guide/help/assistance dogs for people with dog fur allergys.They have the coat of the Poodle(NON! shedding) and Labrador brain/intelligence.And they breed true.That's all the key trait that worrent pedigree status 1-has purpose 2-breeds true.So there is no reason why they can't be a registered breed. These dogs are NOT registerable due to the many problems that go with them which is why the GUIDE DOGS FOR THE BLIND STOPPED breeding them. They suffered health problems more than either breed involved, shed far more than expected, had more dogs with behaviour problems and THEY DO NOT BREED TRUE. On the other hand those who are breeding to a specific type, have setup a breed club to oversee the whole process and are doing health tests will follow the same route all other breeds have to become recognised by the KC. i notice it dosnt say that "thou shalt not breed father to daughter and mother to grandson " which sadly is the thing that is making the breeds so genetically deformed. That statement is a crock of dodoo love, they are not genetically deformed for a start nor is any disease brought about by inbreeding - if there is no fault on their DNA no disease will emerge. Let me give you a couple of examples, my godson is XYY a genetic disorder - his parents are in no way related other than being humans of the opposite gender, his genetic status and subsiquent disease has occured due to an 'insult' to his fathers DNA during the time of sperm production or at time of fertilisation. My own breed of pedigree dogs has a very small gene pool, a breeder imports 3 dogs from the USA, produces puppies out crossing these 3 dogs to other lines within the UK brilliant Fresh DNA, expanded gene pool all positives. Unfortunately for us a new disease has emerged which we now have a test for thank god. It is fatal, occurs in humans and is recessive again a product of 'insult' to the DNA strands during copying process. Now if we'd kept our breed 'closed' this problem would never have become an issue for UK dogs THAT'S A FACT as it was unheard of anywhere else in the world but is spreading along with US exports! Thing is USA average 3000 of my breed registered annually where as the UK average is approx 70 - 100.
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06-10-2008, 06:33 PM
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Any dog that needs fixing sergerically by a vet for example that peekanees that had to have it muzzle fixed.Or dogs with bad hip score'etc'etc so genetic bad traits.Should be castated or spayed never bred from if a vet says so.And the vet can do this with out breeders concent in the intested of the dog in question and future generations.
IMO somthing along this line should also be there. These points are covered by the breed clubs and the Dogs health team, each breed with say Hip issues have a 'breed mean score' ie a score above which an animal should not be breed - I agree and I dare say the KC are looking at enforcing these BMS's ie a puppy from parents above said score will not be registered. YOU must remember hip displaysia has many components to it not just genetics how YOU as the owner rear your puppy, diet exercise etc play a part in the problem. Puppies can be damaged during a difficult delivery, dam laying on them in the nest, a knock during puppy play can all have a bearing on the outcome of a scoring session at 12 mths of age. Vets already notify the KC of any surgery that alters the conformation/look of a dog including name, address etc of owner/breeder. Any show person will tell you if they've got a puppy with a hernia say, the jury's out on genetics verses rough mother as the cause, they take said pup to the vets for surgery, they AND the vet will/should notify the KC of this change to the dogs natural conformation. As for the Peke and his surgery the allegation was investigated by the KC including discussions with the VET who treated the dog and performed the surgery! They didn't just ask the owners/breeders if they changed the way the dog looked, the BVA, DR Jeff Sampson and General committe all looked into this false claim and found it to be exactly that A FALSE ALLEGATION. My friend at Avinjas GSD already does all that and more. Its a shame all breeders wont consider all the points on the list I am an Accreddited breeder scheme member and do way more than is on that code of ethics too and agree all breeders should do that and more. I have asked for all pedigree puppies that are registered to ONLY be registered once their pedigree has been DNA proved. I DNA profile all my dogs not just my breeding animals, the KC have them on file should anyone want to check the validity of my pedigree's all they have to do is contact the KC with their concerns, give details of their puppy pay the fee, swabs are sent out they take the sample which is then processed and checked against their parents. Remember folks its YOU the public who are buying unhealthy animals from unscrupulous breeders and expecting those of us who do things the right way to protect you from said individuals! I'm sorry but I wouldn't even be allowed into their homes to see how or what they are doing when breeding said dogs - how in gods name do you think they keep going and making money YOU KEEP BUYING.
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06-10-2008, 07:31 PM
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__________________
  Snakes: Monty - 10 yo anery corn & Calleigh, 4yo miami zig zag corn. Cats: 4 Somalis - Harry, Roscoe, Cadbury & Purrdy (9 - 13 yo) and 1 Siamese - Luna (10yo) - all bred by me Fish: 15 pond fish www.feorag.freeservers.com
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06-10-2008, 08:34 PM
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a shame though that breeding to the kc standards creates problems with certain breeds, the english bulldog being a prime example, perhaps its time the kennel club cleaned up its act before condeming everyone else
__________________
to lie to others is one thing, to lie to yourself however is the downward slide tsu-sa-si u-we-do-li-s-di a-ga-la-yv-wi
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06-10-2008, 10:21 PM
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dogs
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06-10-2008, 10:25 PM
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we all know you dont inbreed your dogs schipwhtever they ares BUT you cannot deny that it goes on . for gods sake , get you head from up the butts of your own dogs and take a good long look at other breeds........
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06-10-2008, 11:07 PM
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 Please understand examples are purely there to demonstrate a point regardless of species, would appear you've missed that bit despite my examples  Hmm butt eh sets the tone nicely Breeds I've been in dogs since 60's are Shelties, Rough Collies, GSD's, RRB's, Pomeranians and Schipperkes, done obedience, security, agility, hunting yeah with a gun not field trials and of course showing. Believe me I know exactly what goes on with other breeds and like many many other pedigree breeders I challenge said individuals, report them etc at the end of the day its folks like you who perpetuate this behaviour - no demand no breeding they'll move onto the next money making creature - maybe reptiles eh? Last edited by Schip; 06-10-2008 at 11:21 PM..
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06-10-2008, 11:26 PM
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patronising mare
. SORREEEEEEE, you should still not compare even as an example human to animal, as humans no matter what genetics they have do not interbreed father to daughter and mother to grandson ( unless you live in sherban), unless they are sick in the head. the deliberate inbreeding of genetically close animals and humans eventually produces GRONKS...... and genetic disabilities...eg labs with hip displacier breeds other labs with hip displacier.....dont patronise dear , you still breed dogs for profit , even if you dont inbreed the dogs you have , bet you would tho if they were more popular ....like say the cocker spaniel , who have a syndrome (through inbreeding ) called rage because they have skulls to narrow for the brain ......rather like the rough collie , who also have stomache problems rather like the german shepherd, who also have hip and eye problems , the list is endless. so dont try preaching about how inbreeding dosnt cause problems , the inbreeding debate obviously dosnt involve you and your dogs so why get involved, unless you are trying to defend yorself ,for something you dont do, or do you because you do feel guilty abut doing it.
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