Hi Folks

Having kept snakes, lizards, inverts and amphibs for many years now, we are planning on getting a tortoise.

Although the research suggests that indian stars are not 'begginers' torts, I feel that my experience with other reps should allow me to be sufficiently competent to take one on (let me know if that is a typical 'noobie' error) I know that IS's need bathing every other day and I have research dietary and temp requirements.

I have constructed a tort table and am looking for advice in terms of the position of the cross bar that holds the UV and for numbers and position of hides. Also advice on decor for aesthetics.

The table is 4' by just under 3'.

I will of course be adding a dimmer stat to the basking lamp.

Lots of advice and comments would be very welcome.

Initial plan is to get a single male (slightly smaller adult size(?)) or possibly a pair. I know about issues of co-habiting snakes and lizards etc but would appreciate advice with torts (not sexually mature until 12 years old (?) so could they be kept together for the next few years - planning on getting hatchlings)

Also what is the current thinking in terms of moist hides for youngsters to reduce chances of pyramiding later in life vs excess protein/diet issues causing the same.


Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get it right first time!

here is the table so far (yacht varnish and silicon sealed interior)





Cheers


Andy

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No-one?

Please advise - I really want to get this right first time!

Cheers

Andy

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Hi Andy, I'm at work at the moment so can't see your pics I'm afraid. You mentioned a dimmer stat for the basking light... do you mean an on/off dimmer? If so that's not really what you need, for a tort it's a case of providing a constant basking area temp which can be altered by moving the lamp up and down.

I have a very good Indian Star caresheet which I'll email to you if you pm me your email address.

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I think the table looks good but can't help re indian stars as I don't keep em

Thanks for the replies, and I look forward to having a good look at the care sheet Tina.

The dimming stats are specifically designed for incandesent heat sources such as bulbs. Rather than switch the heat source on and off like mat stats do, they get the basking spot to a preset temperature and then maintain the temperature by dimming the light and holding at the correct level (similar to moving it up and down, but automatically). Pulse proportional stats do the same thing but are designed for use with non-incandesent heat sources such as ceramics.

The advantage of the diming stat is as it holds the light at the right level to get the required temp the bulb lasts longer as it is not being swithed on and off, electricity bills are better as you are only using what is needed to maintain the heat spot at the required temperature and the animal concerned isn't getting random day/night signals as the bulb flashes throughout the day.



I use dimmers with my beardies spot bulb and pulse proportional for the boas ceramics. Those with AHS microclimate units are also effectively pulse proportional although they are built into the units.

The only on/off stats I use are the mat stats in the leopard gecko vivs.


Cheers

Andy


p.s. I know what you mean about not seeing photos at work - sooooo annoying. Worse still, I haven't got a phone line into my new house yet, so I can't even see them when I get home

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i dont keep stars myself, i keep african torts. but the current suggestions seem to be that providing a good range of microclimates CAN reduce pyramidding when combined with optimal temperature range ( Ed can give some good advice about that) . you can provide a moist hide with moss and a substrate such as aspen, but i (personally) prefer a soil sand mix with lots of hides and contours. The soil in my tables is misted every day to keep dust down and also a bit more in one or two of the hides to keep humidity up. then the tort has the option of finding the perfect area for its needs.

I dont use a dimmer stat on any of my bulbs and have never had any problems, i just raise them a little in the summer and lower them in the winter. If you already have the stat then let us know how you get on with it. and rememer that a basking distance is not measure from the floor but rather the top of the torts shell. My top of my leopards shell are quite high off the floor and stars are a similar shape so the discrepancy between floor and top of the shell can be quite dramatic!

I keep groups of tortoises together and have had no major problems with clutch mates OR new addititons (after quarantine of course). just monitor them for signs of bullying, but a small amount of investigation and gentle (!?) shell banging is normal, and complete ambivalence is not unusual!

are you planning on putting them out in the sunshine?? they can benfit enormously from natural grazing and uvb.

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my bright red hair is very SHORT........where did it go!

Great advice on substrate tinker - thanks! Also it's a really good point about the height of a tort. Obvious when you think about it but something the probably wouldn't have even crossed my mind!

Do you think that a bulb will be ok without a stat then? I have always used stats from a safety point of view and ease of use, but they have always been inside vivs, where I suppose the risk of over heating is much greater than the open topped tort table (?). What temps would be ideal for an indian stars basking spot?


Absolutely...if we ever get any!

Cheers

Andy

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I have never used a thermostat on a basking light, I just raise or lower the light to get the correct heat under it. The only other thing I can say about the light is, I notice you have a red bulb, torts need light, so I would change the red light to a normal white spot light.

If you do go for a Star good luck, I would love some.... But I'm sticking with Hermanns and Leopards.

Hi there,

your table looks good, I would change to a clear basking spot lamp instead of a red one, they need to see the difference between night and day and they can't with a red bulb as they cant see when there is a red bulb in place.
I wouldn't use a dimmer stat, I just position the lamp, take the temps and adjust accordingly, once its set, there will be little variation.
There is no actual research (AS far as I'm aware) regarding tortoises doing better in humid hides, however, I do prefer to use them and know of a few breeders that have reported smoother tortoises when doing so. If you think about it, in the wild they would only really have humid hides as the dew would collect on the grasses and also on the bushes that they hide under.

I'm no good with Indian stars but I wouldn't really advise them as a start tortoise. From what I can tell they are very delicate and can get RNS at the drop of a hat. Not sure if anyone else thinks the same way, but I certainly wouldnt start out with a tortoise such as this. It's hard to find genuinley captive bred ones too.

Josh

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Josh
www.tortoise-world.com

Thanks again for all the advice!

Firstly, the red bulb in question came with the ceramic holder when I got it and is not working. I will be replacing with a 'white' light before anyone moves in. I had assumed that like chams, the torts associate the light with the heat.

Tortoise Dude - Thanks for the info. Firstly, what is RNS and how is it avoided/controlled? What would be the 'ideal' 'begginers' tortoise.

Please excuse the inverted commas but I have a pet hate in as much as, I often find that 'begginers' species almost always in reptiles/herp circles means 'bulletproof'. i.e. 'it doesn't matter if you don't keep it correctly as the chances are you will get away with it'. IMO NO reptile or exotic species is 'begginer' or 'expert'. Admittedly some are much more difficult to keep than others and some require massively specific conditions /diets but that surely just makes them difficult to keep rather than 'not for the begginer'?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people should recommend difficult to keep species as 'first pets' but surely their are plenty of people keeping (for example) Indian Stars, successfully and with their advice anyone could theoretically do the same.

I know, for example, that corn snakes are one of the most recommended 'beginners' snakes, mostly because you could practically keep them in a cardboard box and they would survive (and calm temperament, small adult size, range of colours, price etc). However, I have a number of corns but I am very careful to keep them in their absolute optimum conditions based on the shared knowledge of hundreds of keepers years worth of experience shared on this site and many others like it. I do the same with my boas, leos, chams, spiders, beardies, mantids etc. I am hoping to do similar with the Indian Stars.

The reason I have chosen IS's is because I have been offered this particular species and know them to be captive bred in the UK (they are currently eggs and in the incubator.)


If the outcome of this particular thread is that nobody on here keeps them successfully and people can convince me that is due to a lack of knowledge about optimum conditions in general ( or maybe when tortoise_dude explains RNS that will help) then I will decline the offer of the torts and look out for a different species that there is much better cumulative knowledge on.

I will not, however, choose a species based on how well it can cope with being poorly kept.


*Climbs down off soap box and eagerly awaits responses hoping that I haven't come across as a narky know-it-all who is getting what he wants regardless of advice*


Cheers

Andy

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