Hiya

I met a lady today who is thinking of letting some one have her 35yr old spur thigh tortoise - only problem is she doesnt have a cert with this tort. She would like me to preferably have the tort as i already have 3 of the same species etc but how would i get a cert for this perticular tort or is that not possible. Sorry if this sounds a stupid question but i have always had certs given to me when getting torts.

Thanks

Hayley

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It's not possible, DEFRA cannot issue article 10 certificates if the origin is not known.. you won't be able to breed the tortoise or sell the offspring legally if it does breed. But it's legal for her to give you the tortoise, and you can keep the tortoise for the rest of it's life legally - or give it away. It's not legal for her to sell you the tortoise, or you to sell it on again afterwards.

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I was of the opinion that you could apply to DEFRA for a certificate if you were given it and could prove where it came from?

i thought that as well helen, this is why i asked. I think i will try to contact defra. The lady hasnt said for sure she is getting rid of the tort but obviously as she wants me to have it i would like to be prepared.

Thanks again for comments - any more would still be appreciated

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If I were you I'd contact DEFRA and see what they have to say although I don't think you'll find it easy to get a cert for her - Andy n Claire are in the same situation and are trying to get certs for their three Testudo's at the moment and have had an animal welfare officer allocated to them and have had to have visits to the vets - with no satisfactory outcome yet. It may be worth you pm'ing them as they're a bit further down the road in the same process and may be able to help.

Athravan is quite right though that unless you get a cert you won't be able to sell her on or breed and sell the hatchlings legally.

Let us know the outcome as it may be useful info for others in the future.

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From what I have read in the past, if the lady gives you the tort and writes a covering letter saying how long she has had it and such then DEFRA will give you a certificate.

How can you possibly prove that the animal was CB if DEFRA do not have the breeder though?

You can get a certificate that states that the animal was a gift, but you can't get the article 10 certificate that proves the animal is CB and therefore legal for resale or breeding.

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I think the latest posts on this thread answer your question:

who has tortoise in drag!

No papers will be issued but you can accept the tort as a gift and gift it on in future (make sure you get the fact it's a gift in writing and that it's dated and signed).

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It is actually possible to get certificates for old tortoises who's origins are unknown. I have a number of tortoises who got paper work issued in the last 18 months (with previous owners) whos origins were not know. A tortoise does not have to be CB to have paperwork.

If you contact DEFRA, they can be very helpful and can tell you your options.

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Isn't that only the case with owners who can prove they had their torts before the new legislation in 1993 though?

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