cross breeding - Page 2

terrypin · #11 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 04:08 PM

hi i made a post with my reasons why i dont think its a good idea to attempt to cross breed but lost my link.im sure you have heard it all before so im very sorry for the animals concerned but at least the vet will profit.
terry

gtm · #12 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

I guess my question is, why would you want to hybridise any of these species? I don't see any problems with them living together, but why try to breed from them?

From a scientific perspective, I don't agree with sub-species definitions for a number of reasons. My own opinion is that these are eco-types of a single species, or perhaps slightly more controversially part of larger species complex in the process of diverging.

The problem for classification arises when these sub-species are spatially and temporally separated. Just because they can produce offspring when forced together, this would never happen in reality, as they could not meet, or don't have over-lapping seasons etc....

Andy

You make a very interesting point which in my view is relevant to the whole spur thighed 'complex' debate - It's obvious that a hermann's tortoise is a different species from a spur thighed tortoise - you just have to look at them & in my opinion it would be very unwise to attempt to breed between the 2 species. However, within in the spur thigh complex I think the position is different and that they are very closely related. The physical differences are really only cosmetic. Personally I don'y have a issue with crossing subspecies but I would not agree with crossing different species.

helen2 · #13 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 05:07 PM

Its wrong to mix species/subspecies and allow them to breed.....there is no reason to do so.....is all.

Henry-flash · #14 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 05:36 PM

Apart from whats already been said do you not think its slightly cruel in some cases. Especially when subjected a smaller female to a large male. For example, my male Ibera. He weights 3000g. My adult female Hermanns weighs just 700g, how can you expect her to withstand the advances of such a large male. To put it into perspective my adult male Hermanns is 400g! The Ibera are much more agressive in their mating than the Hermanns. I have to say all my female Ibera are at least 2000g and are able to cope with his advances in a VERY large area. If any male gets too much they are separated.

shelbert · #15 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry-flash

Apart from whats already been said do you not think its slightly cruel in some cases. Especially when subjected a smaller female to a large male. For example, my male Ibera. He weights 3000g. My adult female Hermanns weighs just 700g, how can you expect her to withstand the advances of such a large male. To put it into perspective my adult male Hermanns is 400g! The Ibera are much more agressive in their mating than the Hermanns. I have to say all my female Ibera are at least 2000g and are able to cope with his advances in a VERY large area. If any male gets too much they are separated.

i dont argue that it would be cruel to keep a large male with a small female, this is only cruel in my eyes because of the harassment issue, not because they are different (sub)species.
my male graeca is about 450g and my lightest female is 200g

shelbert · #16 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrypin

hi i made a post with my reasons why i dont think its a good idea to attempt to cross breed but lost my link.im sure you have heard it all before so im very sorry for the animals concerned but at least the vet will profit.
terry

hi i will try and see if i come across your post,
i have mixed tortoises before, and the tortoises i have now, some were mixed, with no problem.....

shelbert · #17 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlasgowGecko

I guess my question is, why would you want to hybridise any of these species? I don't see any problems with them living together, but why try to breed from them?

why not? because i believe in cb animals. and not in this whole graeca complex where people cant make up their minds about wat type of tortoise is wat, and the next minute they seperate a sub species, re name it, then decide that what they did was a mistake, then return it to the previous complex.
i can almost guarantee that peoples breeding groups of spur thigheds will be told that what they have been breeding for years, shouldnt be bred any more!

shelbert · #18 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helen2

Its wrong to mix species/subspecies and allow them to breed.....there is no reason to do so.....is all.

why is it wrong? why is there no reason?

shelbert · #19 (**permalink**) 11-06-2008, 09:09 PM

ps,
just to add,
im on about mixing mediterranean tortoises.... but not breeding them..
im on about breeding the spurthighed complex

delicious · #20 (**permalink**) 12-06-2008, 08:37 AM

Hi,

Will the offspring of a Testudo Graeca Buxtoni and Testudo Graeca Ibera be considered a hybrid?

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