I've nebbed in now on peoples posts surrounding the OP so I'd better put my thoughts across.

Blatent cruelty, wounds/illnesses not being treated and no intention of doing anything I would seriously consider reporting. Mess and muck probably not. If I went to someones house and found what I thought were 'wrong' conditions set ups, and by wrong I mean providing the oppoiste conditions to what the, lets say, tortoise needed. I'd be in the persons home as a guest and fellow tortoise keeper so we could talk about the tortoise and conditions and why the set up was a particular way. I'd probably offer opinions like 'lots of people find x and x good for this type etc if I thought they were on the wrong track. You'd be in a difficult position to slag them off as you are in their home and a guest.

I don't know what I'd do if I went to someones home and was really disturbed by what I saw (which was the case in the previous thread). I can't honestly say I wouldn't report them. You have to be objective and say that for most people things would have to be pretty dire for them to consider reporting. I acknowledge that some people seem to use the reporting mechanism for personal issues - thats their problem - although upsetting and embarrasing for the reported person. It would be wrong to say you'd never report anyone as you don't know what you are going to see next and I hope I'm never in the position where I'd have to.

They are kind of related...

How much experience did the person doing the reporting have over the person being reported? They might have been concerned... why didn't they try to deal with it first? Was the concern warranted?

Again... should the keep be held to the standard that this new keeper was taught?

I keep many reptiles in shoeboxes... is that cruel? Would this person report me as not taking proper care of my animals because I keep them in shoe boxes... feed them commercial diets... use vivs...

See... the new keeper is indoctrinated into a specific way of thinking... and takes off running with it... in one direction.

Because of this indoctrination you have to watch your back... that bothers me.

i think it was the "rehomed as opposed to bought" thing. Nobody wants the slovenian imports unless they are rehomers and then they have been cleansed of all evil. I have always had a soft spot for the underdog.... as i said, i was a newby to torts and they really had me going at one point. I was convinced my hermanns were at deaths door and when i found a worm in the poo that was it. i was going to let them be adopted. My ultra sane OH sat me down and toldme to be logical. And it wasnt a widespread thing, just one or two people that seemed to prey on the new inexperienced keeper.

yes, and a little tiny bit with some of the current forums. and i never bothered to report it as the few people involved always seemed a little "cliquey". and who would believe a newby stupid enough to buy an import?! it can be a very intimidating thing for people looking for advice for the first time.

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This actually happened to me a few years back and this post reminded me of it for some reason...

I was invited to a friends house to photograph their collection. Every room in the house had tanks and racks and bins... You all can guess how liberal I am but needless to say I did not take out my camera once. I did not say anything to anyone ever about this. My friend obviously picked up on my behavior and hasn't spoken to me since. The point is that it was their business and no one elses.

Many of these people who pass judgement on others in the name of animal rights need to work on human rights first... treating fellow keepers the way they would like to be treated.

Ed

If someone reported me because they 'did not like' the way I keep my animals I'd be pretty cheesed off. If someone reported me because they had serious concerns that I was neglectful and mistreating my animals that would be a different matter. I would expect them to talk to me first though.

On the flip side if someone was keeping their animals in a different way to me I'd ask them why there were doing what they're doing in the hope I'd learn something. If I didn't like their keeping methods but they weren't harmful then I'd jolly well keep quiet... nobody's keeping methods are going to be identical and as long as the animal isn't suffering - so what?

The only time I'd ever report someone would be if I saw an animal being obviously mistreated or neglected, but I'd make damn sure I'd got my facts right first by questioning the person and making sure that there wasn't a perfectly viable explanation.
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Darren, for someone to report you sight unseen and on hearsay or gleaned opinion is appalling. Not a nice episode at all, I hope you've managed to put it behind you.

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[quote=-EJ;2112240]They are kind of related...

Again... should the keep be held to the standard that this new keeper was taught?
quote]

You're assuming that new keepers are the only people critisising what they see. In the other case, the visitor was not a new keeper and we do not know that the keeper was any more or less experienced than the visitor. I guess they'd have worked that out during conversations, you go to a house to see tortoises, you're going to talk about tortoises.

I'd hope that new keepers are sensible enough to ask questions if the set up they see is different to what they expect.

I'm not going into any indoctrination of new keepers. I appreciate theres a personal element for you and lets just say 'history' but at least people on THIS forum get a varied view of tortoise keeping. Different approaches are mentioned regularly, we accept that peoples set ups are different depending on space, time, finances, other pets, climate, availability of garage/shed all sorts of variables come into play. If individuals prefer to just use a single source of information thats their choice.

No doubt about there being a personal element in my case... I guess I won't go there...

This is why I threw it out here... I would expect a more rational approach as most of the people who responded put out.

The new keeper follows the lead... what they were taught. There are very vew lists like this where there is a rational approach to keeping reptiles. It's not a question of sense but a question of exposure. Again... different points of view are silenced one way or another. Single sources of information are not always a choice. The reader has to be aware of that choice in order to make it.

ed


[quote=blazingtortoise;2112351]

I suppose a view from a new keeper here is warrented!
I have tried to read a multitude of books, articles and forum threads (yes thats you guys) regarding the care of my new tortoise.
I have never been one to take the first piece of advice offered to me but like to get a more generalised view - hence coming on here as there is a wealth of information out there which on first glance all seems reasonable and I can easily see why new keepers are often sent off on the wrong path so to speak - many of the things I have read have been discussed on here and I would like to think that after finding out as much as I can and listening to others with experience, that I have come to the best decissions I can make regarding the care of my tort.
I suppose here is where I say thanks to all of you for all of your help, guidence and advice as a lot of you make much more sense than some of the books I have read and you always manage to back it up with good solid evidence, so cheers guys!

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Take care

Denise x

Helen thank you for the kind words they are most appreciated.

Tinkerbruce I totally understand your point Slovenian/imports are so off limits so much is thrown at new keepers who have acquired one of these so called condemned animals when asking advise on the forums and yes they are avoided like the plague but as you say soon as one comes up for free rehoming a multitude of takers are asking for it gleaming usually in the reward of how wonderful they are to take on such special tortoise, I never judge were the animal came from but try if I can to give advise that's suited to my own husbandry guide that might help and reassure they are doing fine and have them a fit and healthy animal.

Tina well behind me I hope .

As for the original question well I have seen some undesirable sites and only feel the need to make suggestions if I feel the animals in question may be suffering health wise , I have never reported anyone or even thought that an option

D

Hi, I'm a complete newbie here - no reptiles yet as I'm still in the research phase - but just wondering what's the problem with the Slovenian torts? Are they diseased or something? I'm not interested in getting a tortoise, I'm just curious about what's being discussed here. Ta.

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