I know most of you don't and won't sell to shops and I assume it is because you believe they won't get the proper care and customers wont be given the right information etc.

Is there some way around this as I am sure some of us more responsible pet shop owners would rather stock UK captive bred the eastern europe "captive bred"

I was thinking that perhaps there could be a membership thing where maybe all shops that sell torts can sign up to and agree to follow certain rules i.e. not kept in vivs, fed on proper diet and must give correct caresheet to all customers etc.

What do you guys think?

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My Reptiles0.1 Sunfire Retic 062.2 100% het Caramel Albino Retics 051.0 Tiger het Albino Retic 040.1 Yellow Calico Retic 041.1 Albino Green Burmese1.0 Albino Granite Burmese 0.1 Urocoan Rattlesnake0.1 Waglers Pit Viper0.1 Varanus Salvator1.0 Royal Python (badly burnt rescue)1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
5234

What a wonderful idea...in theory...

My advert in the shelled classified section...does say(for the 1st time this year) trade welcome, but as yet nothing concrete has come of it, I have had numerous enquires too.

I guess the problem comes down to money???...I, as a UK breeder, do not wish to "murder" my torts away to the trade. I have had many traders offer me silly money for my UK CB torts, as I know other uk breeders have also been insulted by low/poor offers.

You can see the traders point of view too, they can get 50/100/500 imports at a time, for well below 40 pounds each.

I do not think you/traders would need a membership/husbandary/caresheet etc. "contract" , just several lengthy conversations and photos of the shops enclosures would be adequate.

Bottom line (as Ed would say) UK breeders get labled/called greedy, which has happened on this forum too, and another favourite...it is our fault the traders import torts...T.T.

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Weeds...There free ya know!!!

Good point I don't have any in at the moment as I am moving things around to get some really nice tables in. I personally would pay more for good animals as long as I can still sell them. May well be ordering a few in the next month if you have any once I am ready for them.

Thanks.

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My Reptiles0.1 Sunfire Retic 062.2 100% het Caramel Albino Retics 051.0 Tiger het Albino Retic 040.1 Yellow Calico Retic 041.1 Albino Green Burmese1.0 Albino Granite Burmese 0.1 Urocoan Rattlesnake0.1 Waglers Pit Viper0.1 Varanus Salvator1.0 Royal Python (badly burnt rescue)1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
5234

on a personal level i wouldnt have any issues selling any of my animals to a petshop. It would be my responsibility to make sure the petshop understood the care of the animals, or i would be unable to part with them. Its the level of care that matters to me, not a sign above the door or the fact they are vat registered.

i think its a sad state of affairs though that i cant think of one single petshop that i would be happy to sell my torts too. i know some pet shops that have wonderfull facilities for furries like rabbits and chinchillas, but the reptile department seems something of an after thought. I know reptile places that keep snakes and lizards in wonderful conditions and are extrememly knowledgeable, but they put 15 babytorts into a tiny viv and feed them nothing but iceberg.

i think 99%of breeders (of any animal) feel an obligation to make sure that any animals bred by them go to suitable homes. a large tort like a leopard or a sulc is a huge commitment, takes time, money and lots of electricity! so its pretty irresponsible to give them to people that have no idea about basic care requirements. I have rotty dogs and if i bred my bitch and gave her pups to any body that wanted them, there would be an influx of rotty pups that just are not socialised correctly and become a dangerous nuisance. Not fair on the animal, so the responsibility is mine.

I agree with TT It does ultimately come down to money I think.

Petshop A buys imported tortoises (I have seen horsefields offered as low as £10, Hermann's from £30-40, but a standard wholesale price for singles is around the £50 mark), they sell them at £100. They make £50 profit (worst case scenario, best case they could be making £90 profit!)

Petshop B buys CB tortoises - what price will breeders let them go for? I haven't personally seen any for under £100. Petshop B buys them at £100, sells them for £150 to make the same profit.

Petshop B will be quoted by locals as the expensive shop. 99% of customers will not refer to them as the shop that stocks CB, they will refer to them as the expensive shop. People look at price tags, they don't often enquire as to origins, or even the general customer cares whether it's CB or CF or imported.

Would tortoise breeders be willing to match a wholesale price of £50?

Lets face it, why should they be? Royal breeders for example - You have a piebald, you can sell it privately for £1500 - why would you sell it to a shop for £750 so they can make profit on it? But corn snakes... corn snakes it can be sell it to a shop for £10 or don't sell it at all, because there are so many around.

Tortoises the demand is higher than the supply. The breeders do not need to lower their prices to sell to shops. So why would they? Why should they? Does it really affect the import market, can you stop the flow of imported tortoises by providing cheap animals to retailers?

I suppose, if you knew a shop that sold imports, and they promised, only to stock your captive bred animals, and stop selling imports - you will have perhaps made a difference..... BUT, you would have sold all your tortoises privately. Those people who would have bought from you privately, may well just go and buy from a different petshop that is selling imports because no breeders had stock. Do you see what I mean? You can't really make a difference as long as demand exceeds supply.

If any tort breeder could match, or offer similar prices to imports I would be ecstatically happy to buy from them, and have done so, so it's certainly something that does happen.

But I can't, and won't blame tortoise breeders in any way for not choosing to sell to pet shops for less money, when really, it's unlikely to make a big difference to the UK market.

What will make a difference I think is time and education. More education = more tortoises living happy healthy lives into adult hood, more time + education means adult tortoises making babies, more tortoises being kept and bred in the UK will mean more supply, to meet the demand. Shops that sell imports but do so with responsible caresheets, proper setups, and full and frank information, may be adding more towards the future of the UKCB tort trade than people realise. Those imports will hopefully make the next generation of CB babies, bringing down the need for imports in the future. As it is, there are just not enough tortoises being produced in the UK to supply the people who want them. Importing is inevitable until that number rises significantly.

Sorry, I'm rambling.

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i bought my CB tort from a petshop near me and paid £110 I also bought a 'first tortoise setup' which included a care sheet, a book, some food for a few days and the calcium suppliments aswell as the table and heat lamps etc.

They answered all the questions i had and said i could come back in for advice anytime!

I know some petshops may be bad but not all of them are!!!

Ive just been back in there today and asked about getting two more and found out they are opening another shop which is going to be more tortoise perciffic

I am a new Tortoise owner and recently purchased a baby Hermann from a Pet Shop. I was sold all the right equipment and given excellent advice in many aspects of care and welfare.

Although i know little about Tortoises i am a Lecturer in Animal Management and hold a BSc (Hons) Animal Behaviour. My main area of research is animal welfare and in particular exotic animals, which are kept as pets.

Often pet store owners do bother to research the species they are selling in some depth, and they are very knowledgeable so please check them out first but do consider selling to them.