No idea on age but I will ask Bromley if she knows.

Also check out the photos for Graptemys sabinensis... that would be my final guess... I'd be surprised if it is not.

I'd also say it's a young male...

I seem to have confused things??????????

I need to know for sure what turtle this is for it's correct care.
I'll be treating it the same as my Miss Maps unless advised otherwise.

Who is the best qualified on here regards Turts/torts/terras?



Sorry for being a bit off but I also get the same responses off fish sites I use and moderate, when id'ing fish. It's so confusing/frustrating.

It can be hard to be 100% sure on these things. Sometimes their markings are not exactly textbook, and it'd only be a guess unless you REALLY know your stuff. It's a female map, I'd personally say Ouachita. It's certainly not a male, my male is 3" in SCL and it's tail is double the length of that one. Care is identical to missi's anyway, so at the end of the day it's like trying to establish if your car is dark grey or gun metal.

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When it comes to Map Turtles... good luck. It's the same with the graeca complex... unless you know the exact location of the founding population or where the exact animal was collected... it is anyones guess.

I'm more of a tortoise person but taxonomy is another favorite of mine.

As mentioned earlier... many Map turtles are ID'd based on the watershed in which they are found. Taxonomists have argued for as long as I can remember that this should not be the case because during times of high and low water there is either a mixing of the populations or a further isolation of the populations.

Did you compare your photos with Graptemys sabinensis?

I would also think that the care would be identical to any of the Map Turtles.

When you have populations that intermix there is not much you can do to get an exact ID just by looking at the animal... a best guess is all you can hope for.

The species in the photo, is I believe the Ouachita Map, (Graptemys ouachitensis) as I said earlier. They natuarally occur over a wide area of the USA, from Minnnesota, to West Virginia, and across to Louisianna. ie a huge swathe of the Mississippi drainage.
The sub species Sabinensis (Graptemys ouachintensis sabinensis), is a western form which occurs in Louisianna, and Texas
Care for all of these species in captivity here in the UK is identical.
For those interested in more detail on this group of fresh water Turtles, I would recommend Graptemys.com, a site run by Chris Lechowicz, who is resident Herpetologist on Sanibel Island.
He is a great character who when he is not working on the beautiful island of Sanibel can usually be found in a canoe paddling the length and breadth of the Central USA studying this wonderful group of river turtles.
The site has great photos and gives real insight into the biology and diversity of these animals.

The one reference I used to ID the turtle actually split off the subspecies of G.o sabinensis and called it a species.

Needless to say the photo in H. vetters book is identical to the one posted here.

In an attempt to find other pictures I found my point was demonstrated quite well at how confusing the taxonomy of the Map turtles is let alone the precise identification... especially if the turtle came from a mixed collection.

I agree, and of course farmed animals commonly available, may represent hybrid forms?
As for Taxonomy, well that can be a whole "Can o Worms"!!

This is one main reason why I've never gotten into water turtles... especially those from the SE US. Trying to pair them up is a nightmare to me.

My car is Sahara Gold.

Thanks you guys for helping me out.

Might have more id requests soon.