thats fair enough, but you guys reccomened that torts be kept outside, and they can pick up some "native" speices of worm (they are one and the same with the slovinian species), so any animal that has food outside should be periodicaly wormed.

Cats, dogs and rabbits etc get it...

Just too add, all of my reptiles are wormed yearly, since the rodent feeders may have parasites, and water etc. I also use an anti-fladulite(spelling) as well.

If i was to own an outdoor tortoise, it would be wormed twice yearly, 2weeks before hibernation, and 6weeks after. this is to ensure there is nothing "hitchhiking" over hibernation, and he has a healthy year.

__________________

I agree, tortoises can easily pick up worms living outside, and do.......I have mine checked twice a year. But new owners who are 'conned' into thinking they have a 'genuine' CB tort have no idea that their tortoise may be carrying a heavy worm load which does make them ill. I am speaking from experience........I have lost count the amount of times I have encouraged a new owner to have their torts checked for worms......its ALWAYS the same story....'I've bought a tortoise and he's very sleepy and not eating, is this normal?'. Sadly it's not always a happy ending, but more often than not the worm load is treated in time.
Establishing where a tortoise is bought from and the possibility that it could be WC is a starting block for tortoises which are sleepy and lethargic, for the sake of the torts its the first question I will ask when someone is concerned for their health.
Contracting worms after they are aquired is normal and expected and as fairly experienced owners we expect and are prepared for this........newbies aren't which is why I persist and encourage owners to have their faceal samples checked to rule this out.

__________________
Phoebe

Keeping: Hermanns and Whitei's

Is there any reason to run feceals? I'd worm anyway as a preventative, and cure. As i do in all animals. For me that is an un-necassary expence and wait.

Also i dont have a problem with peoples views, more the attitude.

If a tort is from "Mr.W" or has anything but UKCB on the forms then TT members start "going off on one" slating the owners, the shops and the whole trade.

Do you know how easy it is to get UK cites on torts, because i can buy a trio of adults, then import 100 torts per year, dispose of the import papers, reg them to my adults and have UKCB torts easily. I know of one person who has implied that they do this, although he obviously wont admit it.

The problem is not with WC torts, nor is it with imports. It is mainly because owners are not told enough, and dont want to know.

And the wild populas of these torts are stable, although low, even with the alleged collecting and distrabuting. The levels in the years leading up to the 70/80 where they were 2bob down the market they were dropping. Explain that?

__________________

Do i have to got to the vets to get my tortoise wormed? or are there any over the counter worming tablets (and what are they called)that i can buy for my 7 year old Spur thigh, do they have to be taken whole are can they be ground up and sprinkled on her food? i did have a problem with her eating and sleeping a lot but now she is outside all the time and seems to be getting into a nice routine,

Yes, I think it is necessary to run faecals, its important to know how heavy the worm load is. Personally I don't routinely worm unless they have them as I feel unecessary medication can upset the gut flora......a bit like giving antibiotics to humans if there isn't an infection, but this is a personal choice and I know many keepers do worm whether they are present or not. Im of the 'if its not broke dont fix it' club.

I know EXACTLY how easy it is to obtain a dodgy licence, I see it everyday, some pet shops even have the audacity to give out photocopies. Its precisely this ease of obtaining a fake licence that is responsible for the massive importation of tortoise from dubious origins.
I slate the trade for its callous disregard for the welfare of the animals and it's blatant inability to give out the correct advice regarding husbandry/diet/housing etc. Pet shop tortoises are dying on a daily basis in the UK, these are almost always either WC or 'captive farmed'. Captive farmed is a very grey area......the definition of this is :- if you own land, you can then claim any animals on it belong to you and theres no one around to stop you hopping over the fence and collecting as many tortoises as you want. You can then keep hundreds and hundreds in cramped conditions, collect and incubate the eggs and sell the hatchlings as your own....hey presto, a booming business in baby tortoises that SHOULD be living in the wild and producing offspring of their own to sustain the wild population.


I have to disagree strongly with your next point.........to me and many others, the problem is DEFINATELY wild caught tortoises.....why do people think this is okay???? Why do you think it's fine to take an animal out of its natural environment and force it into captivity??? Because tortoises don't fight back thats why, non aggressive animals that are easy to pick up, shove in a box and make money on. Disgusting. By the time they reach this country they are usually dehydrated, stressed and carrying pathogens from being mixed with other species, either by the importer or the pet shop owner who wants to cram as many as he can in a tiny viv....the more torts, the bigger the profit.

Can you show me proof of this 'stable' wild population ??? How long do you think man can continue to take thousands of tortoises out of the wild without it affecting the species? There are almost 5 species of Galapagos tortoises already extinct (when Lonesome George dies, he'll be the 5th) and we know why.......because of man, no other reason. When will we learn our lesson? From Siberian Tigers to Pandas we destroy species for our pleasure and this WILL eventually happen with tortoises, so how long do wait before taking action?

Im not sure what you want me to explain in your last sentence as you seem to have answered that yourself....the reason wild population levels were dropping were because there were being imported in their thousands which in turn was having a devasting effect on the species, hence the ban. Looks like we learned nothing from that and this is the reason the Tortoise Protection Group are campaining to have the ban re-introduced.

__________________
Phoebe

Keeping: Hermanns and Whitei's

Wow you sure can type !!! - very well put on all accounts, just to mention that i have recently seen in excess of 100 tortoises (all had Pyramiding) in 2 shops in my local area crammed into small vivs, there was even a medium sulcata mixed in with med species and indian star tortoises, it was about 4 times the size and was climbing all over the others, they were all reduced in price to try and get rid of them. do you think an authority should be called anyone????

Can you pm me the details please and I will have a chat to Andy H of the TT.

Tamie