she continued to say 'as no tortoises would com across it in the wild'

so yes alfalfa may be from hay but she has a point so don't be so pedantic

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LOL thanks Katie
Andrew im just trying to give good info for the sake of a tortoise which could easily become ill if the tort decides to injest the stuff, the pellets might be natural, but to be blunt (no offence littletort) pellets are crap, and should not be used for a substrate due to causing so many ill problems.

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Linz

so is alfalfa a weed or a vegetable

Its a legume that is high in protein.

It is indeed a natural substance. The thing is though, that although it is natural it is also harmful to tortoises. Even grass eating species are not fed alfalfa even in it's wild state as the protein content is so high as to cause kidney problems. The pellets swell when moist (urine) and harbour mould spores which are harmfuil to the digestive and respiratory tracts. Horsfields being the greediest of torts and the ones needing the least amount of food (eating for only three months of the year in the wild) would in my opinion be the species most at risk from using this substrate.
This is good enough reason for using them as far as I can see and anyone wanting to argue the point is not really thinking of the tortoise, just arguing, which seems to be the point a fair bit on this list.

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Take care
Sue

wizzasmum@aol.com

Well i am certainly not argueing merely trying to find out as much information I can about things before I make my own mind up as that is the sort of person i am.I want what is best and safest for my tortoise.I have waited 30 years to get her and am in no hurry to make her ill or unhappy.I dote on her and love her very much.If any of you take my questions the wrong way please don't.It may seem like I am being arguementative sometimes but I can assure you all that it is my way of getting as much info and facts and different opinions as I possibly can.I am old enough and wise enough to be able to tell who knows what they are talking about and who don't and even if it seems like I am not taking heed I can definately assure you that I am.Also I ask questions to see who tells me what and how much opinions differ from my own. It's my way of finding out the most I can,I am trying to learn as much as possible.

On Cheloniauk on the list of foods it says alfalfa hay theres no wonder I'm confused.

That's brilliant but horsfields are NOT like your basic Med tort as in they are a burrowing species and to feed them 12 months of the year will make sure the life is shortened, and to add to that feeding high protein is a recipe for disaster. When making your own mind up I would always ask yourself 'does this happen in the wild?' If the answer is a resounding 'No' then you can be sure you will be needing a vet some time in the future.
Always try to mimic the wild re feeding, housing, humidity levels etc and you will not go far wrong.
Hope this helps

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Take care
Sue

wizzasmum@aol.com

Well my tort doesnt eat them and even if she did eat a little now and then it isnt going to harm her IMO.She would need to eat some every single day to get too much protein from them surely and she doesnt even touch them anyway.They are made of compressed hay so therefore are safe even if eaten in small quantities.Some people even feed hay to there torts.I prefer her to have this than to have sand in her stomach if it did get in somehow.

'some people feed hay to there torts'

to certain species of tortoises yes. Sulcata's being one, however hermanns/horsfields aren't one of them.

Also people who feed hay to their torts avoid alfalfa due to its high protein levels. So what you said isn't strictly true hun.

[edit] to add we dont keep tortoises solely on sand we use 60/40 top soil/play sand respectively..like they would come across in the wild

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the soilsand mix is also at advantage because it can hold tunnels unlike pellets.

and horsfields sure love to dig.

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