I have two 5 year old marginated tortoises, approx 21 cm long, one male and one female. It's come to my attention that the female's back legs aren't working properly. When she walks, she relies on her front legs, only dragging her rear legs. One of her legs appears totally flat and limp. The other is tucked up under her shell, and I have seen her use it but she doesn't seem to rely on it. Could one or both of the legs be broken? I'm taking her to the vets in the week but I'm worried. Has anyone got any advice for me in the meantime? Is it best to try and keep her still, or seperate from the male? I don't know how long this problem has been going on for as I've been away from home for a few months, and the people caring for them report not noticing anything.

I'm reviewing my entire care for them. They are currently in a very small tank, and we were definitely ill-advised when we bought them as reading through websites has proven. Can anybody give me advice on the following points:

1. Diet - what are the best foods for tortoises? And in what quantities, how often, etc? Also is cabbage recommended?
2. Living conditions - What is best to use on the floor of my vivarium? How deep does it need to be? Should it be level, or raised on one side. If so, which side?
What is a good sized (but minimal) tank for my tortoises? (both 21cm)
They currently have a heater on one side of the tank and a UV strip light spanning the whole of the tank. How ideal is this? Should the UV light be concentrated on one side? What is the ideal temperature? And how often should both the UV light and heater be kept on for? Currently the lamp is on for about 12 hrs in the day, and the heater is left on day and night.
3. Mating - should this be discouraged and how? My male tortoise keeps biting the legs of the disinterested female, even dragging her across the enclosure a short distance. This is, as far as I know, unrelated to her leg problems, as he seems to be only attacking her front legs.

Sorry this is so lengthy, I'd appreciate any advice on any of the matters. Thanks in advance.

first off seperate the tortoises.

one male to one female is asking for trouble. As the male will pester the female to mate whether she is sexually mature or not..mating rituals can be quite aggressive and this won't help her if she is ill.

it's advised at the very least two females to one male..more females the better though.

Diet weeds weeds and more weeds. with daily calcium suppliments, and three-four times weekly suppliments of nutrobal as well as the calcium.

they shouldn't be in a vivarium, if they're living inside they should be in a tortoise table (see the med tortoise care sticky) at the top of the page to see what a tortoise table looks like..this is only one example. Basically imagine a book case on its back with the shelves removed.

Substrate should be 60/40 top soil to play sand mix respectively, or hemp (aka aubiose/hemcore) can also be used.

minimum indoor table size would be 4ft x 4ft per tortoise.

you say heater on the side of the tank?can you elaborate? there should be no heat on at night, and temps should be allowed to drop down..if u use top soil/playsand(which is ideal) this allows them to dig down to thermoregulate.

the basking lamp should be in a position to provide a hot spot of 30-32 degrees celcius. (always avoid heat mats like the plague) at the far end of the table/enclosure so that a thermal gradient can occur in the enclosure..cool end can just be your room temperature.

Basking lamp and uvb should be on for 12 hours a day..no heat at night n no light.

mating should be discouraged by seperating them as i've already said.

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"The worst sin towards are our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them; that's the essence of inhumanity" George Bernard Shaw

I think Katie has explained about their husbandry. What I would say is this tortoise needs to see a specialist vet as a matter of urgency - today if possible. In the interim I hope you have separated this female as she is suffering and leaving her in with the male is just going to add to the stress this tortoise is suffering.

Please keep me informed as to how you get on at the vet. If you would like to contact Andy Highfield directly then please let me know - I work for the Tortoise Trust and can get hold of Andy quickly.

I am worried about this tortoise and really want to help, pm me or email me if there is anything I can do.

Tamie

Who is Andy Highfield?

I have seperated the tortoises and have a vets appointment for tomorrow. Is there anything you recommend to transport the tortoise in?

How old is a sexually mature female tortoise, usually? Mine are both the same age but the female has never shown any interest.

Katie, by a heater I meant a basking lamp. I have the box with me and it's called a ceramic heat emitter (40 watts). Is this suitable? Should the heat be turned totally off at night? And when should I drop temperatures, and what to?

I feel extemely bad about this. I thought I was doing a relatively decent job of looking after my tortoises but it seems we were entirely ill-advised about the most basic of care.

Andy Highfield is the founder of the tortoise trust Tortoise Trust Web - Start Page and is probably the most knowledgeable person in regards to chelonians.

sexual maturity depends more on size than age to be honest.

Personally i prefer light emitting lamps for hot spots as i feel its more natural for the tort..replicates the sun. A normal spot lamp from asda would suffice, with the uvb tube along the same side. What strength uvb tube are you using as 10.0uvb is necessary. (also tubes need replacing every six months to keep the uvb output high)

Alternatively there are combined heat/uvb bulbs on the market which are superb, kick out more uvb than strips and last much longer. examples of which are the power sun, t-rex, or the megaray.

And i don't use any background heat at night. I have the heating set so that if it gets to 10 degrees celcius it kicks on just to keep it stable there. I know some don't bother with that and have no problems though.

don't feel bad it's not your fault you were given bad advice.

as for transporting the tort.. i'd suggest a small ish box with lots of hemp (if u have any available to you?) just to restrict the movement slightly and risk anymore damage.

Just a question have you been supplimenting the tortoises food with calcium power?(limestone flour/calypso) and giving them nutrobal? I'm just wondering if its not a break but metabolic bone disease (MBD) Can't say i've personal experience of this with tortoises, but i've heard similar things with lizards who have severe cases of MBD

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"The worst sin towards are our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them; that's the essence of inhumanity" George Bernard Shaw

Andy Highfield of the Tortoise Trust (Tortoise Trust Web - Start Page), he has over 30 years experience of tortoises and is highly respected within the tortoise world.

I would take the tortoise to the vet on something very soft, nothing to aggravate the possible injuries to her legs.

Sexual maturity is dependent on size. If your female is stressed then I am not surprised she is not showing any interest at all. A ratio of 1:1 is not good at all and your poor female reflects this.

Tortoises need a drop in temps at night and therefore the heating needs to be turned off.

What vet are you taking the tortoise to?

Tamie

We were told 1 male and 1 female was the best combination by the petshop... then again we were also told that vivariums were the best home for them, and after reading just a few websites that bit of advice is clearly laughable.

The uvb tube says 5.0. I'll be sure to get a 10.0 when I have their new home, and look into the combined lamps.

I've not given them any supplements. Are supplements required?

I'm taking the tortoise to my regular vet.

yeah regular suppliments are essential

daily calcium sprinklings (i use limestone flour) and nutrobal daily for growing torts, three - four times weekly for adults.

essential you get a 10.0uvb tube asap or a combined, as it provides d3 which is essential for the breakdown and absorption of calcium.

you may be best seeking out a specialist vet as many regular vets know very little in regards to exotics and tortoises.


[edit] eBay UK Shop - Shelled Warriors: tortoise, tortoises, limestone flour << sell seeds, limestone flour, nutrobal etc

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"The worst sin towards are our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them; that's the essence of inhumanity" George Bernard Shaw

Hello,
So sorry this has happened to you.
Please please find a vets that specialised in tortoises. Where are you based?
Pet shops are just after your money.

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It sounds as though this tortoise has serious problems. Depending on how long she has been like this it may not even be reversible Several things spring to mind i.e. bladder stones, kidney stones/failure, egg retention to name a few. You need to be absolutely sure that the vet you are seeing is a recognised chelonia specialist. Your regular dog and cat vet will not be able to tell you any more than you have learned from this site. At the very least a regular vet will need to liasise with a specialist in order to treat this tortoise correctly.
As with Tamie, this is a serious worry and needs to be treated without delay. Plese do not waste time taking it to someone who will not know know what to do.

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Take care
Sue

wizzasmum@aol.com