Chill Dude. And I'm afraid you can't fault the tortoise trust.

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That's my point. How do you know? You have not kept tortoises long enough to see whether their advice is good in the long term, that will come with your own experience.

I am not saying that they are not offering good advice, but to my mind being so blinkered to anyone elses point of view for someone as new to this as you are can be a dangerous thing.

What would your views be if this was a few years ago and tort tables were a fairly new thing? No doubt you would be a staunch defender of vivs as that would be what the majority recommended.

I know you have done your research and good on you for that, but never assume that he (or she) who shouts loudest is always right

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Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead.
Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow.
Do not walk beside me either, just f*** off and leave me alone.

about 4" x3" under shell

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That's my point. How do you know? You have not kept tortoises long enough to see whether their advice is good in the long term, that will come with your own experience.

I am not saying that they are not offering good advice, but to my mind being so blinkered to anyone elses point of view for someone as new to this as you are can be a dangerous thing.

What would your views be if this was a few years ago and tort tables were a fairly new thing? No doubt you would be a staunch defender of vivs as that would be what the majority recommended.

I know you have done your research and good on you for that, but never assume that he (or she) who shouts loudest is always right [/quote]
Valid point but unfortunatley little research has gone into tortoises so until then we have to take the most long standing and reliable infromation we can the tortoise trust. And considering all their tortoises live to a long and healthy age there not doing anything wrong even if there over careing so theres no harm in following there lead. But following blindy is a dangerous thing granted after all listening to the majority of pet shop owners who at the time are seen as being experts and all knowing they often give incorrect information.

As for space that should be fine for the little guys a nice amount of room to roam.

I appreciate that and your right. I'm taking the advise from other people. But I trust that their advise is right due to the long lifes of their animals.

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As I said, that is fair enough. But don't be so quick to denounce anyone else's views just because they do not match theirs.

As the old saying goes, there is always more than one way to skin a cat (Disclaimer: before anyone picks up on that, I in no way advocate the skinning of domestic pets )

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Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead.
Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow.
Do not walk beside me either, just f*** off and leave me alone.

not at all daft! of course we never REALLY know, but lets do the best for the animal to try minimise the chances of said animal being stressed!

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Cheers,
Shaun

My Pets0.0.2 Hermanns Torts (Lucy/Loosey-Goosey and Millie/Millie Poo-Pops)

What I Want - Eventually!0.0.1 Bearded Dragon 0.0.1 Redfoot 0.0.1 Chihuahua

Are you the same tort' lover that contacted me about my Hermanns?

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contacted you about your hermanns? fraid thats not me!

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Cheers,
Shaun

My Pets0.0.2 Hermanns Torts (Lucy/Loosey-Goosey and Millie/Millie Poo-Pops)

What I Want - Eventually!0.0.1 Bearded Dragon 0.0.1 Redfoot 0.0.1 Chihuahua