You of all people should know how we learn more as we develop, just because turtles surrived poor conditions doesnt mean they were alive. Just loook at how the keeping of tortoises has developed.

Terapians need a UV and basking light in order to process food and maintain Ca levels. Just as in tortoises and in fact any basking dairnal reptile. Tho not all terapians need it.

Just look at there natural habitat, there is a huge UV source, where they can bee seen basking on regular basis, also any decent care sheet will also tell you they need UV.

She did do well, as much as you unknowledgable, know everything post tried to state otherwise.

Jay

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keeper of: lizards, geckos, snakes, frogs, beetles(too many) and other insects.

That's a very good point Mason, of course it's the customer's responsibility to learn as much as they possibly can about any animal's requirements before purchasing one, the blame cannot be laid entirely on the shops.
However, it's only reasonable that the shops selling these animals should know how to look after them themselves, to sell any animal they know little (or in many cases nothing) about is surely irresponsible.
We all know that people go into shops and see cute little animals which they often buy on impulse, it's entirely wrong but it happens, and the shops are as aware of this as anyone else. I'd even go so far as to say that many shops rely on, and even encourage this impulse buying, I've witnessed it myself many times.
It would take very little effort on the part of the shop to learn an animal's requirements and pass that information on to prospective customers, all they need are some accurate caresheets to hand out and the job's done, it's then down to the customer to decide whether or not they'll follow those recommendations but at least the shop has done it's bit.
To many newbie herp keepers the first point of contact and source of information is the shop that sells them their animal, they naturally assume that the shop staff know what they are talking about, in the same way that you assume a car dealer knows something about the car he's selling you. The customer trusts the shop to give them correct advice, for the shop to not do this for whatever reason is a betrayal of that trust, IMO any shop that is unable to give correct care advice in some form should not be selling that animal.

i go bass fishing and see a dozen or so sliders laying on logs just across the pond. basking intensely. then i'll hook a big snapper the size of a garbage can lid on some liver and can realize that he... eats the whole animal so doesn't have to bask ion the sun. snappers never bask... ever. but they rule and sliders and musk turtles have to earn a living around them...,. mostly scavenging food...

I agree with you Graham, just me playing devils advocate again.

Just in my eyes I see it as equally the customers fault, they should have a bsic idea and alarm bells should have started ringing.

If we get bad advice these days, rather than argue it we just go elsewhere.

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Mason

1.0 of "Quixotic_Axotlotl"





http://masonexotics.co.uk/ourcollection.aspx

Locality Boas and Retics A Passion.

For turtles its actually quite a dissapointing time in the UK at the moment and I think we are heading for a repeat of the mass dumping of turtles that we saw after the teenage mutant ninja turtle craze of the 90's. Heres why...

1, Garden centres are usually stocked by Fish importers/wholesalers and being in the trade I have started to see an increase in turtles appearing on these lists usually as a "buy 1 get 1 free" wholesale deal, meaning they can buy turtles in at a few quid each.

2, General public are no more buyer aware these days than they were 15 years ago,

So its a deadly combination of a cheap supply of turtles and a general public who dont always research what they are buying into.

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www.livefoodsbypost.co.uk

Look we can do self promotion as well...Livefoods from £2 a tub - Delivered.

you are right, some animals are irresponsibly cheap at trade, sub £7 iggies, sub £2 turtles etc etc

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Mason

1.0 of "Quixotic_Axotlotl"





http://masonexotics.co.uk/ourcollection.aspx

Locality Boas and Retics A Passion.

I'm sorry, but are you serious?? (and might I add rude and obnoxious?)

First off, I'll give you the basics. UV stimulates the terrapins/turtles appetites, allows them to synthesize vitamin D, this is essential for healthy skeletal and shell growth, therefore exposure to UV rays for a terrapin kept indoors is essential. Have you seen the state of the shells of some of those terrapins/turtles not exposed to UV? I have one at home, rescued from an owner that had no idea. They get all the UV they need outdoors in the wild by basking in the sun. We take that away from them by bringing them indoors, where correct me if I'm wrong, we have no direct sun. Which part of that UV starter unit and UV bulb is unnecessary given the indoor circumstances?

Yes, terrapins and turtles have survived indoors for years without UV to the detriment of their health. Since we're sharing career advice, from the short sighted crap you've spouted, you may well be suited to a future as a politician, I hear they do very well propogating their ideas without research or substance to back them up.

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My Reptiles0.1.0 Rosie - Amel corn1.0.1 Duncan - Ghost motley stripe/Zipper corn1.1.0 Max & Milly - Brazilian rainbow boas1.1.0 Bruce & Matilda - Irian Jaya carpet pythons1.0.0 Ronnie - La Bahia dwarf boa0.1.0 Ruby - Central American dwarf boa, 50% het albino0.1.0 Skipper - Red eared slider terrapin

"Challenge everything....believe nothing"

http://www.freewebs.com/slitheringsnakes/

Turtles are extremely hardy, but there is still a big difference between survive and thrive!

You know what? Thats exactly what crossed my mind. Terrapins seem to have become extremely readily available and very cheap again. My RES is a result of the turtle craze in the 80's and 90's, she's knocking on 18 yrs now and her shell will never be normal, but she has improved. I don't think consumers can be blamed entirely as they rely on 'experts' to tell them the truth, we believe folk when they imply they know more than we do. I work in the financial sector and we are so heavily regulated to ensure we say and provide the exact info as laid down by law before selling a product. Why doesn't the same apply to a living thing? If I was intending to make another pet purchase, be it dog or snake, whatever, I do my research first. But many folk just don't bother. Its frustrating, but the onus must lie with the pet/garden centre initially. With the right information, an inappropriate purchase may never take place. Even a bloody plant is sold with instructions on a plastic insert in the pot!

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My Reptiles0.1.0 Rosie - Amel corn1.0.1 Duncan - Ghost motley stripe/Zipper corn1.1.0 Max & Milly - Brazilian rainbow boas1.1.0 Bruce & Matilda - Irian Jaya carpet pythons1.0.0 Ronnie - La Bahia dwarf boa0.1.0 Ruby - Central American dwarf boa, 50% het albino0.1.0 Skipper - Red eared slider terrapin

"Challenge everything....believe nothing"

http://www.freewebs.com/slitheringsnakes/

I purchased some fish from Pets at Home a while ago, and they did ask me what size tank I had, if I had a filter etc, has it properly cycled and what else I had in the tank. The most I've ever been asked when buying a turtle is "Have you got the setup then?".... and I know full well that the most that person asking the question will be able to tell me is that I should have a UVB tube. It's a case of poor care sheets provided by the breeder/supplier, mixed with the shops reluctance to tell you what you need, incase it scares you off.

How many "impulse buyers" would still want a turtle, if the shop made them get a large tank, external filter and MVB?