Pellets - weeds, UV bulbs - sunlight debates - Page 14

Athravan · #**131** (**permalink**) 26-02-2008, 12:59 PM

The World Chelonian Trust, whilst emphasising the importance of dietary balance, protein intake and fiber, also seems to think that calcium (so not only supplementation, but also the correct lighting as without it the calcium will not be processed correct), exercise (and from that you can also deduce enclosure size), and hydration (from which you could possibly take a logical step towards humidity levels) are also contributing factors towards pyramiding... but even the WCT will admit that they don't know for absolute certainty what controls the pyramiding of the shells.

What Causes Pyramiding

It is a shame that the TT and the WCT would be conflicting on views such as hydration.

To quote the WCT,

Quote:

We do not know everything about turtle and tortoise nutrition and can not point to a single cause of pyramiding. We do know that such improper growth is not in the best interest of the health of the animal. We also know that this condition can be avoided by providing the animal with sunlight or vitamin D3, calcium supplements, a varied diet containing acceptable foods for that species, proper hydration and exercise.

Athravan · #**132** (**permalink**) 26-02-2008, 01:06 PM

And here's an even better study that proves that within the species it examined, humidity is a factor for pyramiding. It studied both higher protein and humidity levels. Both were found to affect pyramiding.

Quote:

A research study was designed to examine the effect of dietary protein levels and environmental humidity on the degree of pyramidal growth in the shells. Fifty recently hatched African spurred tortoises (G. sulcata) were raised for 5 months under artificial conditions of varying environmental humidity and dietary protein content (14% vs. 19% vs. 30% crude protein on a dry matter basis).

Blood values of calcium, phosphorus and hematocrit were measured, along with the size of any pyramidal growths, and compared among groups.

It was found that dry environmental conditions (24.3-57.8% and 30.6-74.8% relative humidity) produced taller humps than humid conditions (45-99% relative humidity). Hump formation differed significantly (p < 0.001) between these three groups kept under the different humidity conditions.

Those tortoises fed the higher protein diets had a minor increase in the formation of the humps.

Pyramiding: Abnormal Shell Growth in Tortoises

HadesDragons · #**133** (**permalink**) 26-02-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athravan

And here's an even better study that proves that within the species it examined, humidity is a factor for pyramiding. It studied both higher protein and humidity levels. Both were found to affect pyramiding.

Pyramiding: Abnormal Shell Growth in Tortoises

That's very interesting reading!

Do any people who agree 100% with the TT view have any links to contradictory scientific studies to give the other side of the argument?

v-max · #**134** (**permalink**) 26-02-2008, 01:41 PM

Been down that route with the Austrian research paper on a different thread. No, to date no scientific research can back up TT's claims has been brought forward. As caring tortoise keepers I'm sure we are all awaiting some further details on how these conclusions were reached.

helen234 · #**135** (**permalink**) 26-02-2008, 02:08 PM

Purely from my own observations...and I have said this many times before.....lack of hydration..in my experience..then a diet that is off-kilter are the biggest contributors.....in all my years of keeping torts...we have to get it spot on.
I refute any idea that overfeeding is a big contributory factor...mine are free to eat whatever they want...as when outside they graze (and ooooops the odd treat). When inside I chuck a pile of weeds and flowers at them each day....note what is left at the end and adjust accordingly.

gtm · #**136** (**permalink**) 26-02-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helen234

Purely from my own observations...and I have said this many times before.....lack of hydration..in my experience..then a diet that is off-kilter are the biggest contributors.....in all my years of keeping torts...we have to get it spot on.
I refute any idea that overfeeding is a big contributory factor...mine are free to eat whatever they want...as when outside they graze (and ooooops the odd treat). When inside I chuck a pile of weeds and flowers at them each day....note what is left at the end and adjust accordingly.

Interesting point and one that I have been grappling with recently. My tortoises have always grown faster than that recommended 2 to 4 gram pcm rate. Recently I decided to try and restrict this. The net effect is they are frantic for food and one has lost weight - not much - 2 or 3 grams when he weights circa 65 grams. He is also a very fussy eater ie refuses to eat for example vetch or dead nettle which I've been offering alot of recently. I've worked out that he likes dandilion and sticky weed but I've decided to leave more than they will eat and let then decide.

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