This is an important catch phrase that I hope replaces 'too much protein'. A poor diet is an unbalanced diet which is why 'variety' is taking off... what is a balanced diet for a tortoise... heck... what is a balanced diet for a person?... very argumentative topic.

The diet is going to be worthless unless the tortoise has the proper conditions (heat and hydration) to process that diet.

I was making a very weak joke - please don't take that element of my post seriously - I stand by the 2nd bit though.

Do we need to worry about pyramiding? - is it necessarily anything more sinister that a cosmetic issue or on the other hand is a sign of underlying poor health? What is the consensus?

Be interested to see examples of pyramiding in wild torts - I've yet to see any wild or wild-caught torts with this problem.

As with all animals, torts are finely adapted to their environment and any deviation from the diet to which they are adapted, in terms of quality, content and quantity, may be the cause of problems.

Is there a parallel with laminitis in horses, which they get in their hooves if they eat too much rich grass?

Pyramiding is relatively common in WC Leopards, Stars and the Padlopers. Some believe that they are geneticly prone to pyramiding. I do believe this is partially true but I also believe it is a behavioral and environmental thing in the case of WC tortoises for the most part.

As far as the horses go... they are mammals... so I would not think there is a paralell in that particular case.

Afternoon Ed,

What do you mean by behavioral?

I said on a previous thread...hydration and food...I took the heat as a given...sorry for confusion,
I have soooo many examples of torts who prior to coming to me had not the best conditions all around......but when I look at causes...as I said and as Ed says...hydration and the right diet...whatever that is....hit all the spots and you have cracked it...but this is a trial and error thing.
I will NOT restrict food intake...outside they are free to graze and inside I throw an amount in that they will eat in the day...and a bit left over.
By the way...I am not saying I have got it all right by any means....but I am aspiring to.

When I say behavioral... a particular tortoise will make particular choices. I'll be at the computer later this evening working on photos and I'll post some here which I believe supports my point. I have a group of tortoises which are as flawless as I can expect... except for one. They are all kept together and are offered the same foods but this one guy is pyramided and the only factor (outside of genetics) I can see is the guys behavior. He is the only one that is consistantly out in the cold where the others stay on the heat mat when it is cold.

The other thing is the selection of foods... some tortoises prefer certain foods and can sometimes be overly selective. I've observed this also in the wild with a few different tortoises.

Heat should be paramount and it often seems to be taken for granted. For the experienced keeper of reptiles it is a given but if you read through all the posts of the new keeper that is having trouble you can almost always trace it back to insufficient heat or improper heat gradient.

Totally agree there Ed i up'd my temperature alot this year and the difference is amazing. Their behaviour changed and they started to lay eggs.

__________________

General reptile keepers seem to have a better grasp of this concept than general tortoise keepers. I really don't know how to put this in words but it would seem that the average tortoise keeper does not think of the tortoise as a reptile... I don't know how else to say it.

As a result... the tortoise 'suffers' because of inadequate temperatures many times.