Why? Time and age is based/dependent on the metabolic rate which is based on tempreature and hydration.

Now you are trolling me? i'm certainly not a chemist are you?

Metabolism includes anobolism? Growth hormones etc. When younger the 'relative' pace of growth' and conversion of energy etc is often quicker or given different chemical signals for most animals? Thats why our noses get bigger or we get hairy as we get older? Have you noticed how big an effect puberty chnages you. (maybe not in your case) These 'signals can also be affected by the other variables in a' closed system' which is what we provide for pets.

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I care for:

1.0.0 Red Eared Slider (Trachemys scripta elegans)- 10/11 yrs old

0.0.2 Leopard-Spotted Catfish (Synodontis eupterus) -5/6 yrs old

0.0.1 Red Tailed Shark (Epalzeorhynchus bicolor) - 7 yrs old

2.1.0 Moggies - various ages

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured
by the way in which its animals are treated."
- Mahatma Ghandi

My first response to this was... WHATTTTT????... but I see your point. As they get older the physiology changes... slows down... in mammals... in reptiles also but we need to get back to the basic concept of poikilotherm. You actually provided another dimension to this discussion but I think we should remain with the basic concept of 'metabolism based on environmental conditions'... that's an easy one.

Remember... Temperature directly effects metabolism in reptiles... that's the point... that's the discussion.

Most long term keepers/breeders of torts, will openly admit to rearing several torts that show various degrees of pyramiding. I am refering to rearing these torts from birth/egg. The vast majority of our older adult torts, would have been w/c and mostly several years of age before being imported. They certainly would have had a "rough time" over here, when tort husbandry was very poor. It would seem that only the strong survived? these torts pretty much fended for themselves in less than favourable conditions here in the uk, for the most part, having to survive unsuitable temperatures, diet, etc. However, show me a photo of one of these 25+ year old adult torts showing signs of pyramiding? their appearence is oh so smooth.

I would agree that there are many factors involved in pyramiding occuring in c/b/reared/young torts. I will openly admit that it is not an easy task to grow on a smooth tort. I do believe that the keeper as a whole, tends to overfeed torts, creating a fat pet syndrone. Yes, as I said previously, there are many other factors, but I believe food content to be one of them. For this reason, I do restrict food intake for my hatchlings/juveniles, they are typically fed every other day. I too confess to overfeeding/under hibernating my hatchlings several years ago, and I, like many other uk keepers have the torts with signs of pyramiding to prove this. As each breeding year passes, I would hope to learn from my own mistakes, and in the future, breed, hatch, rear/grow on healthy smooth torts, displaying very little or no pyramiding, associated with that of a captive bred tort.

Here is a carapace side photo of one of my 7 month old 07 Spur thighed Iberas...T.T.

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Weeds...There free ya know!!!

Uh Uh - you cant move the agenda now matey! You said ' WHAT CAUSES PYRAMIDING'?

Perhaps you should rephrase- I prefer how do we RESULT (or TRY tpo prevent pyramiding?

The animal organism is so complex you cant look at this subject from just your chosen dimension so that you have the upper hand over other forum members. We dont even understand the human body - do we? We only discovered DNA a few years back. Serious research into this is where the answers MAY be. If by tempearture you mean thermo-dynamics do you want to discuss that now?

Look so many variables are involved. A torts body is a complex organism that converts energy (from many sources) into life. Sometimes these chemical 'signals' get distorted by environmental variables. One of those variables is age - especially youth or old age- when combined with the others.

Why dont you stop concentrating on beating people up and show real concern for the torts that we all have? Oh i forget you don care about anyone but yourself do you? What were you fed on then or perhaps your home central heating is tad too high?

__________________
I care for:

1.0.0 Red Eared Slider (Trachemys scripta elegans)- 10/11 yrs old

0.0.2 Leopard-Spotted Catfish (Synodontis eupterus) -5/6 yrs old

0.0.1 Red Tailed Shark (Epalzeorhynchus bicolor) - 7 yrs old

2.1.0 Moggies - various ages

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured
by the way in which its animals are treated."
- Mahatma Ghandi

Most, if not all, of the tortoises you mention are what I call 'yard tortoises'. Most, if not all, of those were maintained in the southern half of the UK. These were usually given free range of a decent sized yard.

Hey, TT, that picture you use... that's Harriet, right? We're talkin' about her in the Longivety thread.

Ok... seriously... I want what your smoking... don't I wish. I get tested on a regular basis for drug use... boy, I envy you.

Back to the point. You are right. There are many factors involved in the proper development of a tortosie.

I don't know if thermodynamics is one of them... that's physics.

I'm trying to keep it simple. I'm a simple minded person... first to admit it.

There's a basic concept I'm trying to get across and it seems that it's getting burried in a relevent but obscure concept.

To find a cause... start with the basic and the obvious. When that is eliminated... move on to the next obvious choice.

Yep...sunny Kent...its a warm place these days, not sure about the climate back then though?!

Just giving my opinion on possible reasons for pyramiding ...I wouldnt mind seeing other keepers photos of their c/b torts, at various ages of developement to compare.

Harriet, Henrietta??? I cant remember now, memory fades with age ...T.T.

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Weeds...There free ya know!!!

Not smoking anything tonight I'm afraid. lets not get onto weeds & hydroponics now!

Ed - I like what i have seen of you - you contribute & that is good - you can also teach a lot of inexperienced & YOUNGER tort owners a few things I'm sure. But encouragement works better than ' dont be stupid' or 'I told you so'. I think we had this thread the other night!

Getting back on topic - pyramiding is more likely when keeping torts (or turts) in captivity. Thats it. We have to test all the variables over time (that word again) & try to work out a solution. BUT what works for you in your situation wont always work for all. You decided to jump on one of my posts so I'm just giving you some response.

I'm good natured really you know.

__________________
I care for:

1.0.0 Red Eared Slider (Trachemys scripta elegans)- 10/11 yrs old

0.0.2 Leopard-Spotted Catfish (Synodontis eupterus) -5/6 yrs old

0.0.1 Red Tailed Shark (Epalzeorhynchus bicolor) - 7 yrs old

2.1.0 Moggies - various ages

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured
by the way in which its animals are treated."
- Mahatma Ghandi

I think it's important to focus on the basics.

I could be wrong... Is temperature not the primary factor in reptiles... tortoises?

There are some comments that provoke me to behave kinda irrational... sorry... nothing personal. I've said this time and again... when I've met you at least one time... hopefully over a beer... or two... or three... I call that personal.

It's been a long time since I 'jumped' all over someone on the net. I learned a great deal that first year... this is a powerful but very limited medium.