Nice! Is that you holding it?

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that's quality!! it looks very nice!!

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i don't believe i was being closed minded at all. i spend alot of time planning my snakes' enclosures, weighing up the pro's and cons of what would be best to keep them in.
the idea of providing a snake with a whole room is good in principle but one that i believe is based upon a romantic idea that a snake thinks like a human and with emotions, needs room to stretch out and will be upset if it doesn't have lots of space. huge enclosures are for zoo's, not homes, and if you keep the large pythons you really are better of having them in an enclosed area where they are easier to control and the maintenance of the cage is easier to keep on top of! the snake will thrive much better in this environment, will feel less stressed and will pose less of a threat to the keeper!

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wot u think

Totally agree with all of the above.

If you're never going to handle the snake ever then obviously it's going to need a zoo sized enclosure. If however it's out for regular handling/roaming then the viv essentially becomes nothing more than a hidebox so large space isn't required. They're not active animals in the wild. And walking into their enclosure, like you would if it was loose in a room would put you in a VERY dangerous situation. If the snake kills you then having a room to itself with no keeper isn't going to last it very long

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provide such huge enclosures because they can kit em out enough to provide the snakes with enough coverage for a sence of secrutiy where as us guys unless we have a hell of alot of money probz can bareley even get close to waht a zoo is capable of creating tehy can really creat a minature jungle but they have the contacs and money to do ti and the space where a sin out homes we dont and if you watch very often at zoos ive seen it on documentary of zoos tehy have to dart the snake to get it out as tehy so agressive where as w eliek to handle out snakes so by keeping them in a smaller but stil lsuitable enviroment we are able to control and maintain the correct conditons much more easily


i hope this makes sence lol

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to me, handling a snake that is going to be very large one day is like walking the dog... it's got to be done regularly if you don't want it acting a fool out in public. a 15' burm is enough to have to be lugging around without it being all skittish... just changing the newspaper can be a real adventure with a pissy python...

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400runner,
This is the second statement that you raise the accusation that my argument is some how based on an anthropic mind set,this I can assure you is far from true.I too become irritated by the wide spread humanizing of all animals,this seldom end in anything but tears.
I was careful to make clear that the 'nature' of your statement came across as close minded not you yourself.I have not spoken enough with you to make such a bold remark.I simply felt that the insistence on such a size viv was a little too strict,and hoped that you were not really so cemented in your views.So raised the point to prompt clarification not as a personal attack.If a large snake was being kept in a 10x4x4 or a 12x4x4 viv would this not still fall within your own ideas on big snake husbandry?
You state "huge enclosures are for zoo's,not homes"but the reasons you give clearly side in the keepers 'camp' more often than the snakes,if atoll.
Your three reasons"you really are better off having them in an enclosed area where they are easier to control" "The maintenance of the cage is easier" "will pose less of a threat to the keeper!"directly pro keeper.Your two reasons"the snake will thrive much better in this environment"and"will feel less stressed"are questionable.Thrive is far too strong a word to use for most large animals in captivity.An adequate life within the welfare parameters for the species,is more realistic a statement.
Stress levels are allot harder to judge,though.A snake placed in a large enclosure being disturbed only when fed and then cleaned,is on a day to day basis under low stress levels.A snake in a home environment will go through several month of training,often longer,witch until the snake becomes accustomed to handling will have higher stress levels at these times.Why do you need to handle it?Because,simply you want to,despite the snake.A large enclosure gives the snake as close to wild a habitat as possible and gives the keeper room to carry out husbandry without the need to handle.This places the emphasis on the snakes needs not the keepers wants.If you had stuck to arguing that a small viv enables you to manipulate the situation with regards to handling I can not argue with that but do you really believe these snakes are thriving in 8x4x4 vivs.As I stated before an adequate life within the welfare parameters for the species is a more realistic statement.
This all comes down to why people keep snakes.Some keep snakes with handling as a high priority,others with of an observing ethos.Reading the threads has not changed my view that the handling camp still see there 'wants' as the deciding factor with regards to both housing and the wisdom of even keeping these fantastic snakes.
P.S.
I am not convinced with the argument with regards to easier to handle when examining due to a medical condition.Even the tamest of snakes,when subjected to injections,though more so aural and cloaca examinations becomes a true handful.As for simple external close observations I have found a close focusing pair of binoculars to give fantastic views of eyes,heat pits,ticks and so,even in the field.

i dont even get y u would want to keep a snake that big.

1 u cant handel it, it costs u a fortune when u decide to feed it and antolope or a dog.

2 its too big for a viv and needs a massive amount of space in your house.

3 itll scare the shit out of ur friends and family.

Are u sure u just dont own this burm and want a rock python to be hard? i think thats wat people r doing these days, buying big assed snakes they cant keep and have no experience in just to see hard. Just like pit bulls

The concert bewilders me

Craig

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