If you want to post pictures on here you will need something similar to a Photobucket account.

Only takes a jiffy!

You'll have pictures up and posted before you know it.

Can you link me/us to the place on Waterlife where your pictures are please?

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Sorry, I should have been clearer, I meant that some of my photos are pinned up in the actual shop itself...

Oh right!

On paper? Old school...

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For Sale4ft x 2ft x 2ft vivarium - Full setup4ft x 2ft x 2ft vivarium - Full setup1.5ft x 1.5ft x 1ft vivarium - Full setup

0.1 Jampea Reticulated Python
0.1 White Phase Tiger Reticulated Python
0.1 Lavender Phase Tiger Reticulated Python
0.1 Madu (Honey Island) Reticulated Python
1.0 Purple Phase Reticulated Python
1.0 Tiger Reticulated Python
2.1 Coastal Carpet Python

Great Post

Cheers


Paul.

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Just thought I'd bump up this old thread since there have been questions on rear-fanged bites on here recently...

Here is my elaboration from the Livefood forum on this topic, for those that are interested...

BTW this was merely comparing the relative toxicity of venoms from Dispholidus and Thrasops. Dispholidus not only has exceptionally large fangs for an opisthoglyphous snake, they are positioned further forward than might be considered "normal" for a rear-fanger (just underneath the eye). Obviously their much more sophisticated venom apparatus gives them the ability to actually inject venom into their intended target... as opposed to the miniscule amounts of venom that would be present in the saliva of a Thrasops, which may, or may not, enter a bite (consider the number of people that report no symptoms from this species).

I supppose this might be compared to the much vaunted False Water Cobra venom, which is said to be "as toxic as that of a Timber rattlesnake". This may be true, but then, a FWC would deliver a miniscule amount of venom in comparison to a rattler, so the comparison is again redundant. In fact, it has been indicated that rattlesnake venom is not *extremely* potent, but delivered in vast amounts. Whether this is accurate I cannot say. I certainly wouldn't compare a FWC envenomation to that of Crotalus, though...

On the scale of "rear-fanged" snakes, Thrasops ranks considerably lower on the evolution of a truly effective venom-delivery system than its deadly cousin. As stated, it has toxic saliva, but its delivery system is primitive as it does not even have grooved fangs. Next up on the evolutionary scale would be Rhamnophis, the so-called "Dagger-Toothed Tree Snakes" that have developed more prominent fangs. In fact I believe that the genus Rhamnophis was once synonymous with Thrasops (certainly Rhamnophis aethiopissa was until quite recently considered "Thrasops aethiopissa". One paper I read referred to T. jacksoni as "Rhamnophis jacksoni" although no explanation for this classification was given.

I posted the above bite account on several other forums and received an informative reply from Dr. Fry himself on the kingsnake.com rearfanged venomous forum. He was also kind enough to post a link to a recent paper he published on the evolution of snake venoms.

In summary (and the following information was contributed by Dr. Brian Fry of VenomDoc and is in no way my own research!) it seems that although the 3-finger toxins are present in Thrasops venom, there are a number of other constituents that are clinically more important, the one of most concern being the snake venom matrix metalloprotease also present in Dispholidus venom (and in certain Viper venoms such as Echis). Apparently Boomslang antivenom MAY be effective for a Thrasops envenomation. For more information I refer the reader to the aforementioned response on kingsnake.com which is highly interesting and informative!

I have also found a paper by R.A. Young indicating that Dispholidus venom also has an excitatory effect on mammalian smooth muscle, just as occurred in my Thrasops bite. This is not connected to its anticoagulant effects. I only mention this in passing because I have not found any mention of pronounced swelling in any of the Dispholidus case histories I was able to track down. I had been under the impression that a Boomslang bite had a latency period of several days without external effects... it would seem this may be erroneous, or simply that localised swelling at the bite site was not considered of enough importance (it certainly doesn't compare to the oedema possible in, say, a pit viper bite!).

Finally, I have become aware of one more case history involving a Thrasops flavigularis in Cameroon although I have not been able to find the medical paper. I gather though that it ended badly. Perhaps someone can shed some light on this?

To finish up, yes, this was a painful and prolonged experience for me, but I do not consider the actual bite to be particularly serious when measured against any number of venomous snakes out there (it certainly pales against many or most vipers and elapids). Had the snake in question been twice the size the outcome might have been more severe, but I must emphasise that I did not at any point consider my life to be in danger (which was why I did not actually seek medical aid). This was merely intended to be an informative account of the effects of the bite. I would certainly never consider it to be of the same severity as a Boomslang bite (or that of any number of other snakes!) and I should have perhaps made that clearer.

I made a comparison to P. olfersii, which HAS caused a couple of documented human deaths. The usual symptoms for that species appear to be similar to those I experienced. Only in extremely unfavourable situations has it actually killed. As I said, whether or not a prolonged bite from a large Thrasops could similarly become life-threatening remains to be seen - and I for one do not intend to find out the hard way!

Francis

i read somewhere about a couple fatalites to well respected herpitoligists on field trips [not together] they both died from rear fanged bites from snakes that where classed non or very mildly venimous i think they belonged to cat snake family,

I remember having some CH babies aroung 4 - 5 years ago - very cool snakes, we had to assist feed them for around 4 months before they struck fed - had to be on my toes then. Getting too old for all that now.

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