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17-04-2008, 06:39 PM
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i dont think its a very good idea. i would have thought the snakes are more likely to breed in their natural enviroment and its no like these snakes are in any danger of being exstinct as they are not even endangered and ive seen them in the wild numerous times, just think it would be quite a stressful time for the snake, dont mean any offence, just my opinion.
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0.1.0 rankins dragon 1.0.1 uromastyx acanthinurus 1.2.0 leopard geckos 0.1.0 pacman frog ....... cichlid tank 0.1.0 border collie  wanted: irian jaya carpet python 
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17-04-2008, 07:12 PM
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This is a very interesting topic, some valid points made on both sides. Myself, I am sort of ambivalent on this one.
I can exactly see why most would be opposed to collecting and keeping wild reptiles when there are so many cb species more suited to the terrarium sold in the hobby that don't put pressure on wild populations. These snakes are more likely to adapt and thrive in captive conditions, are generally better all-round pets and won't go through the stress of settling in (indeed, if the wc EVER settles in). Having said that, I would be lying if I said I had never collected a herp and kept it in my younger days. In fact, it was growing up in Gibralter, Spain and southern France, chasing wall lizards, moorish geckos, viperine snakes and horseshoe whip snakes (amongst others) that I think I first developed a love for these animals. I still hunt for reptiles when I am abroad or in the countryside here (there's something thrilling about seeing even a little adder or common lizard for the umpteenth time, its a feeling I don't think will ever fade) only I don't remove wild animals from the environment. Frankly I no longer see the need for it - I prefer to just watch them when I can. Nowadays most hobbyists start with a cb corn snake or royal python that is already feeding, relatively stress-free and have at their disposal all the technological wonders currently available to keep their chosen reptile happy and in great condition. And that is a GOOD thing. However, back home where I grew up in Gibraltar these things were just not available at the time (today there are limited amounts of heat pads and fluorescents occasionally in stock there, and not much else). I (and I'm sure a good many keepers who started with a reptile they caught themself) made do with old fish tanks and light bulbs. Despite this, I successfully maintained for many years all sorts of little lizards and not-so-little snakes - Podarcis, Psammodromus, Tarentola etc. My first snakes were a Horseshoe Whip Snake, a couple of Viperine snakes and a juvenile Montpellier snake (DWA over here, but I still consider it amongst my favourite ever!). I also used to find Southern Smooth snakes, Ladder snakes, Spanish Grass snakes (Natrix natrix astreptophora) and Lataste's vipers, though far less frequently. When I moved to the UK in my middling teens I managed to find and keep common lizards, slow worms and grass snakes, and even bred the latter two species with little effort. HOWEVER I must be honest and say that this is all well and good, but nowadays there is no need for it. As I said, with so many interesting and/or easier to keep species on the market, there's little point in keeping a British reptile you might find just for the sake of it - unless it is a species you yourself have a particular interest in and really have to maintain just one or two specimens. The key thing here is being RESPONSIBLE. Personally I do not think there is much chance of a project to breed a British species on a large scale succeeding in the common household. It would be irresponsible (and outright unethical) to collect as many animals as possible with that purpose in mind. Better to let nature run its course. However, as I say, I personally do not find fault if somebody collects one or two of a COMMON species (i.e not threatened on a national or, just as importantly, local scale) and tries it in the terrarium for interest's sake. This is how the hobby began, after all, back when there were no cb royals or corns or beardies sold in pet shops. Having said this I feel I should also point out that common lizards do not do well indoors. Of the legally keepable British reptiles only the Slow worm is really suitable as a pet and does well on worms and slugs. Grass snakes CAN be kept as well, but as already mentioned several times on this topic, feeding may be a problem. Most will readily accept live amphibians but the feeding of native amphibians (or reptiles) to a pet snake is something I will never excuse. Some of the specimens I've had have adapted to fish or mice (yes, mice!), the rest have been released. On that note, perhaps larger female grass snakes would make better captives than the smaller males. I've had two large females: one I caught when I was young and wide-eyed and bred for me with a tiny male. The other I found a couple of years back mauled by a cat or dog which I took in and fattened up. Both adapted to fuzzy mice rather quickly (although they only ate when left well alone for the night). I also found that the smaller snakes were more likely to take fish than the larger ones. I feel happy to say that the injured animal improved dramatically and was released at the end of that summer. Although I agree that the re-release of animals into the wild is NOT a good idea, especially captive-bred ones (even/especially if they are a native species), this was an already adult animal taken in only for a season and I like to think that I saved it's life.  Okay, many will still disagree with me and say that keeping ANY wc reptile (British or otherwise) is wrong. I accept this opinion too. As I say, there's not really a need for it. BUT does this still apply to the hobby as a whole? How many tropical snakes are imported each year to the UK that are wc? I can think of dozens of species that people drool over on these very forums - Boigas, some boas and pythons, as well as many rearfangs, spring to mind. The truth is that we are only just beginning to understand the needs of some rarer species that previously were thought difficult to keep. There are no CB populations of many of these wonderful species and it is only with the introduction of fresh bloodlines that this is likely to change. Many of my animals arrived as WC. I think that there is a responsibility in the captive care of such species to make the attempt to breed them and release some cb animals into the hobby, hopefully in the long term lessening the pressure on wild populations. When I decide to acquire one of these wc animals, whenever possible I will get not just one or a pair, but as many as possible. Some of these rare animals may be difficult to find again (Thrasops, Dendrelaphis, Philothamnus, etc). With these I try and form breeding groups that hopefully will produce offspring to be inroduced to the hobby. My personal ambition is to get a hold of every Thrasops jacksoni I can and start a small-scale breeding group that regularly produce young. That's still for the future though. I know this is slightly off-topic, and I am still in no way recomending the collection of native herps. BUT I think it is food for thought. BTW, Lucifus, if you do manage to catch anything you intend to keep, feel free to PM if you want to share any information. Again (and I cannot say this is enough) I do not think it is necessary but I have had my own experiences with some of these species that might help you. If you are going to keep any (which I can kind of understand) then if anyone has any advice we may as well share it to contribute to their well-being. 
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