sorry guys, didnt mean to start an argument, everyone has different reasons fo rdoing things i suppose. i personally like to interact with mine. i did buy her as a breeder so i dont expect to be handling her that much, just didnt want her knocking herself out everytime i went near the rack.

you didnt start an argument tony. was a discussion. does she fly at her tub walls when you go past?

Same, I get snakes as pets.. I want to handle them.

I wouldnt get a aggressive/large snake that i cant handle.

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1.0.0 Black Mexican King snake Kujo
1.1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boas Mr Snakeypoo & Rio
2.0.0 Toy poodles Leo & Buuren

*Waiting impatiently for 2 Bearded Dragons to grow up so i can kidnap them! (Zim & Ger)

http://www.myspace.com/twiisted_suicide

That is the hands down absolute BEST description of what FORCING a snake to allow you to handle it I have ever heard.

It's one thing for the snake to come to you - to approach a stranger on your own terms and take an offered hand to shake it and have the freedom to move away from the stranger if you're frightened - and another thing entirely to be grabbed bodily and molested.

My snakes are handled as much as possible on THEIR terms - I have some that do not appear to be bothered by being brought out of their vivs and handled; those are the ones I handle. The ones that will approach me, come up out of the viv or tub themselves, and climb up my arm. They're showing they think of me (insomuch as they are capable of "thought") as a moving tree, not as a predator.

The exception is cleaning cages - if the snake won't come out of the tub, it IS picked up to make it possible to clean the cage.

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- Ssthisto





Lizards: 2.2 E. macularius, 1.2 H. caudicinctus, 1.0 R. ciliatus, 0.2.1 A. fragilis, 1.1 T. merianae, 1.0 V. niloticus ittibittius
Colubrids: 3.4 P. guttattus, 1.0 P. guttatus X E. climacophora, 1.0 P. o. rossalini, 1.0 P. o. lindheimeri, 0.1 E. anomala
1.2 Lamprophis spp, 1.0 L. g. nigritus, 0.1 L. g. californiae, 1.0 H. n. nasicus
Boids: 1.1 E. c. maurus, 0.1 E. conicus, 4.1 P. regius, 1.1 A. maculosa
We HAD a three-bedroom house... Current lodgers: 1.0 E. c. maurus, 1.1 E. c. loveridgei, 0.1 E. macularius, 1.0 L. t. annulata
Snakes'n'Adders turned my girls into boys - thanks for showing us how to probe.

My corn always wants to head back for me when other people near me are holding him. I know he doesn't love me, its just that he is used to me and my smell and handling techniques, but he can differentiate between me and other people, no?

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ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
Dont forget: May 25th is International Towel Day!
http://www.towelday.kojv.net/

Appreciate your towels!

i have no intention of sparking a debate, just want to stick my two pennneth in where its probably not wanted lol.

i can we as rep keepers really say whether a snake is cabable of human like emotions? how can we say it does not enjoy human interaction, or differentiate between indeviduals? what proof have we as humans really got (this is a actual question i am genuinly interested in any proof on this matter). even so, i think the way we would really know for sure is if the snake was to turn round and tell us what it thinks in no uncertain terms.

lets face it, at one time in history we 'knew' the world WAS flat lol.

i'm not having a dig at anybody lol

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you don't know you've lived until you're about to die.........
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1:2:4 Royal Pythons
0:1:1 Snow Corns
0:0:1 Anery Corn
0:0:1 Okeetee Corn
1:0:0 Amel Corn
1:0:0 Albino Everglades Ratsnake
1:0:0 Red-tailed boa
0:1:0 Albino banded cali kingsnake
1:0:0 Red milk snake
1:0:0 Blood Python
0:0:1 Candy Cane Corn
0:1:0 Rough Green Snake (unfortunatly deceased but not forgotton..R.I.P)

+ horses, rats, mice, budgies, finches, cats, dogs, ferrets and a goldfish ....and on and on and on.
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from a non-snake keeper point of view, if i had one, i would want to be able to get it out and check it over and have a good look every so often, and gettting the snake used to regular handling would mean it wouldn't freak out when you needed to do it, so surely in the long run its better for the snake to be used to being handled? also hamsters are not exactly cuddly, little sods probably more likely to bite than a snake also dogs didn't come out of the wild and quickly become cuddly pets, took generations of interaction to get rid of their instincs to defend themselves from people, just look at the common unpredictability of wolf hybrids. Snakes will never be cuddly pets, but that isn't why people get them, but they still want to be able to handle them, which isn't the same thing, i'm sure he isn't looking for affection from her, just tolerance. Please don't bite my head off, this is just my opinion...

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Actually thats a myth, no one ever thought that

The Flat Earth Myth by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.

__________________

ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
Dont forget: May 25th is International Towel Day!
http://www.towelday.kojv.net/

Appreciate your towels!

My snakes are handled as much as possible on THEIR terms - I have some that do not appear to be bothered by being brought out of their vivs and handled; those are the ones I handle. The ones that will approach me, come up out of the viv or tub themselves, and climb up my arm. They're showing they think of me (insomuch as they are capable of "thought") as a moving tree, not as a predator.

exactly. on thier terms. she asks out now. wraps around my arm and sits there. i know when she is gonna take a fly at me, she stares at my face. i also have a rat snake who only comes out IF he wants. which isnt too often he prefers his own company. but i open viv doors and if he appears he appears. if he doesnt the doors get closed.
i dont MAKE my snakes DO anything they dont want. my royal now senses im not a threat, and we have an 'understanding'. but i agree with twiisted, you have to be able to handle them at some point. and i enjoy interacting with them, if that day, they feel like interacting with me.

Your smell doesn't mean "predator" to him - he's learned that your smell is a "neutral/non-threat" issue.

Some of my snakes are better with me than they are with total strangers, and I'm sure it's for exactly the same reason. They've learned that I'm not a threat, but other bipedal hairless apes might be.

__________________
- Ssthisto





Lizards: 2.2 E. macularius, 1.2 H. caudicinctus, 1.0 R. ciliatus, 0.2.1 A. fragilis, 1.1 T. merianae, 1.0 V. niloticus ittibittius
Colubrids: 3.4 P. guttattus, 1.0 P. guttatus X E. climacophora, 1.0 P. o. rossalini, 1.0 P. o. lindheimeri, 0.1 E. anomala
1.2 Lamprophis spp, 1.0 L. g. nigritus, 0.1 L. g. californiae, 1.0 H. n. nasicus
Boids: 1.1 E. c. maurus, 0.1 E. conicus, 4.1 P. regius, 1.1 A. maculosa
We HAD a three-bedroom house... Current lodgers: 1.0 E. c. maurus, 1.1 E. c. loveridgei, 0.1 E. macularius, 1.0 L. t. annulata
Snakes'n'Adders turned my girls into boys - thanks for showing us how to probe.