In all honesty if the snakes are adults and he has been sensible enough to have 0-1 males in the group then there is little reason that they should not be together assuming that the viv is big enough to house them all and they all get on in personality.

With regard to the hides, I would point out that the rat snakes are always going to be bigger and stronger than the corns and that it is the corn that is going to get pushed out of the hide. If it were me, I would be tempted to add hides that are too small for the rat snakes and big enough for the corn. The rat snakes will then choose the bigger hides in preference... having said that, I have seen rat snakes with hides balanced on their backs that were too small for them to get in

If he has been daft enough to put male corns in with male rat snakes, I would point out that as and when the larger and stronger rat snake gets horny, it will almost certainly force itself on the poor little corn... and if there are females in there too, it will not give a damn about what sex the corn happens to be since it's sexual drive will take over... this could of course damage the male corn and will 100% definately stress it out beyond belief.

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http://www.herpcare.org.uk - Herpetocultural Care Guides

http://www.happinet.co.uk

If it's a shop, are you 100% sure that these animals are kept like this all the time ?

I know of quite a few shops that keep rat snakes together ( adults of appropriate sexes only ) during opening times and then separate them in to their own vivs at night.

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http://www.herpcare.org.uk - Herpetocultural Care Guides

http://www.happinet.co.uk

100% - these snakes are like this 24/7

There was an adult everglades and a subadult everglades in; a large adult annery corn (although may be a subadult grey ratsnake) looked male to me; an amel and a normal corn (both adults).

There was one hide at each end...an unstatted heatmat...the viv had a large number of dried up c**p in it and numerous pieces of shed skin.

Actually, none of the stock was on thermostats (I asked).

None of the animals in the viv were sexed so for all they know there could be at least one male. One of the corns was definately female; one looked male...but they said they didn't know whether they were male or female.

The viv was 4foot x 15'' x 15'' ish (definately 4 foot long; and no higher than 15'') - and this was for all the snakes mentioned above.

It was rather a sorry site to see; and upset me a bit to see them all in a small environment. I realise shops just don't have the space to house all their snakes individually; but this is a bit extreme. The snakes were all reduced as marked on the viv, and have been in there a while all together.

The last time I visited the shop was in march; and I mentioned it/complained back then that they shouldn't have so many snakes in such a small viv and needed more hides at least etc. But I haven't been up since until the other day due to lack of funds, transport and time.

I was quite shocked to see there were no improvements in that respect; but at the same time, more vivs had been added as well as heat lamps (all unguarded and well within reach of the animals - again I was told the snakes wouldn't reach up to the spots - despite them being 6inches off the ground in one case - and so wouldn't burn themselves; and guards were not required)...

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Sounds like they just have a "Rat Snake" viv doesn't it.

Not good... not good at all.

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http://www.herpcare.org.uk - Herpetocultural Care Guides

http://www.happinet.co.uk

i think they have perhaps bitten off more than they can chew to be honest; which is why the rat snakes are reduced - for a quick sale; trying to shift them.

I may be wrong though; but either way it wasn't particularly clean, and too overcrowded; in that particular viv at least.

it is concerning; but with any luck they will let me help get things sorted out.

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Poor little things (or not so little in this case )

There is sadly little that you can do other than keep hassling themuntil they either change the way they have them housed or ban you from the shop!

CAn I ask what area the shop is in please?

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I won't give specifics but it is in the north west.

It's a real shame (aside from the way they are kept, of course) because the rest of the shop has always been so great; all the fish tanks are clean; all the small animals (hamsters, rats, ferrets, rabbits etc) are kept clean, the birds aren't too overcrowded and are kept clean; all in good condition etc.

They stock some nice animals, rarer/harder to get mammals (spiny mice, hairless rats/mice, etc) and it is generally a very clean, well maintained shop...but since starting up with reptiles around a year ago it has really let them down.

It's obviously just plain naivity (sp.)...starting with reptiles to expand and keep up with demand; yet not realising or really understanding their needs.

Other than the reptiles it's a lovely pet shop; well laid out, reasonably sized, light and airy, good range of equipment and stock etc...a real shame about the reptiles.

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