Just thought i'd put this up as a sort of spin off from Faith's topic.

As we've seen the treatment of the CF's varies greatly some take pride, some just want to cash in but at what cost are they willing to do this?

So i thought it may be of use to those thinking of dealing with CF royals to see how those of us who already do deal with them handle them.

My personal method is:

I buy the first shipments ONLY so end of April, beggining of May as these usually come from Ghana and the snakes haven't been sitting in the pits, in crates, at airports etc for days/weeks on end.

So they come in and i go to my seller and dig through the boxes of however many go in a box and pick out the best ones i look for:

Good sized ones but not fatty fatty ones as to me that often indicates immediately yolk may not be absorbed properly or there's gastric problems.

Good looking ones, although importers/exporters know what to look for now you can still find some real gems in these early shipments.

So i bought my snakes and they're home with me.

2 weeks before i got these i had a rack setup in a room with no snakes - i don't even use my normal quarantine area for these as i consider all CF's to be potential bombs until proven otherwise.

Every snake is sexed and put in a tub which is layed out with damp kitchen roll and a water bowl and they stay like this until they shed and aren't checked etc between at all.

Once shed they are sexed and put in a less humid environment on blank unprinted newspaper and obviously have water bowl still.

Once they've shed i then offer food, always defrost warmed up and some do go straight away which is great, those that don't i gently assist but no real effort is made here as there's still plenty of time but this year within 4 days of arrival 60% took defrost one way or another first time.

I try this method for 2-3 weeks and then any still not eating i feed a live to and then leave them again for a bit and try defrost again.

This sounds gross but i examine the first stools passed by these visually and with gloves will break them to see if i can see evidence of parasites as i have seen snake poo crawl with worms and i also let my nose guide me, i know what healthy royal stools smell like and look like and if these aren't right then these get their next stools examined by a vet.

I then monitor weight gain every 2 weeks and if weight gain isn't occurring even slightly or is infact decreasing then these are vet checked too.

So i will openly say i do NOT treat unless i see a problem simply because as in everythng constant exposure to treatments/sterile things causes the immune system to weaken and i believe that giving them the chance to ward off anything themselves boosts their immune system but if i do see a problem i treat it, fair enough 1 cf royal costs me less than 1 vet consult but money is nothing compared to life, i'd honestly rather have lost money at the end of selling them all and know they all had a good start and are healthy than be in profit wondering what happened.

Those which are treated are treated accoridng to problem, there to me is little to no point treating with panacur if i don't know what worm is causing the problem or if it is in fact worams and not flagellates etc so i get the right stuff from my vet to treat what is present and nothing less, i also don't use beaphar etc because i'd rather stick to prescription.

Once feeding and shedding the royals are then sold, i aim for 3 - 5 consecutive defrost feeds ideally although this year i had problems which meant i had to sell some while still assisting but every seller buying these i checked over myself and they have my full contact details and the majority came to my house to collect so finding me is not hard to do and i have nothing to hide so will help.

The only thing i did say to people buying those not 100% was that if they feel they are struggling or can't do it then they MUST let me know while the problem is ongoing so i can step in and either take the snake back and get it feeding, refund them or refund them until it's feeding and then resell it at the same price which ever they want just so long as i know WHEN it is happening not 2months later having a call saying my snake never ate and is dead, i can't help them then which is why i make myself very clear in first instance.

My stats so far:

2007: 10 CFs bought, 0 treated, all are between 350-450g today barring 2 runts which are just poor feeders but all 10 are here with ME.

2008: 50 CFs bought, 30 sold at cost to 2 individuals who paid upfront knowing they were as such and wanting CFs but having no way of getting them and all 30 are going well and most have been sold on as established feeders. 1 died through impaction of unabsorbed yolk i believe (the vet removed what we think must have been yolk), 2 more died for reasons unknown but had never fed and were treated precautionally. 1 never fed for me and was given away to 1 of the buyers who now has it on defrost. All others sold are as far as i have been made aware feeding well and growing well.

So i don't consider myself careless in my methods because every buyer knows my T&C and i make those with the animals best intentions first, if i thought a buyer was not capable or wouldn't treat if necessary then i wouldn't sell end of story i don't care if they've kept a royal 10 days or 10years if they can't be bothered to treat and only want money i'm not selling.

Soooo that's my PERSONAL protocol for CF royals, i have no problems with people questioning anything etc some of my buyers well most are on here and if they wish to comment either positively or negatively (hopefully all good lol) then they are welcome too as well.

So what's everyone else methods?

Rachel

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www.regalreptiles.co.uk



2008 Corn Snakes Available (Aztec, Caramel, Charcol, Hypo, Hypo Stripe)

2 Male Royals Avaiable: 1 Proven Breeder, 1 66% Poss Het Pied Ready To Breed

we do pretty much the same as you with the following excpetions:

We worm/treat them all

we don't go directly to asist feeding.

Any that refuse their first few times of being offered defrost get live, one or two liove feeds is usually enough to get them established then the switch to prekill or hot defrost is easy. Only those that ignore live food go down the assiist feeding route, only those that are in a poor way get force fed.

this year we have 25, no force feeders, 2 assist feeders. ( I think thats right, Sami will correct me if i'm wrong) We already have some at 100G+ and we've still not sold them.

We keep full records of feeding, shedding and treatments (it all just gos on the feeding record)

thye are all housed in 9L (I think they are 9) RUBs on a statted heat strip. with a basic hide, waterbowl and newspaper setup.

We won't sell until 6 consecutive defrost strike feeds are taken as a minimum, they all go with full records and a full disclosure about the animals history and origin. Everyone who has ever brought anything off us is put on Sami's MSN and we always taske their phone numbers to ensure we stay in touch, we still have people who we sold to over a year ago in touch with updates and questions.

Any long term assist feeders, commited non feeders etc either remain with us or go elsewhere for another knowledgeable local keeper to have a go.

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Mason

1.0 of "Quixotic_Axotlotl"





http://masonexotics.co.uk/ourcollection.aspx

Locality Boas and Retics A Passion.

I had 11 of Rachel and all of them are doing great and all feeding.

Other than the runt male, that has a lot of character, they are all over 100gr and feeding well on defrost.

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This is the way they should be sold and hats off to all that do this.

For those buying remember that you get nothing for nothing and a cheap animal is that for a reason.

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My SignatureNew sig rules suck big hairy thingsAnd are also rubbish

i had ten of rachel. all 10 are good feeders. all above 100gms and gaining weight nicely, i was quite prepared to have poor/non feeders, and other problems that tend to come with CF but i have had 100% success. I feel the way you do things rachel is spot on and 'the proof is in the pudding' as they say, great quality CF animals that prove when you do things right CF can be as good as CB.

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I have 3 07 CF females bought from 2 different shops all 3 were treated and eating well before being sold. They have been no trouble, all eat pretty well for royals and are healthy friendly snakes. 2 came from Leaping-Lizards in York and the 3rd was from a local pet shop, not even a specialised rep shop but the owner keeps and breeds a few snakes himself.

On the other hand I bought 2 "CFs" from a member on here and although I was told they'd been treated and fed it was obvious that they had been neither and that they were WC. 1 died of internal parasites but the other is still with me although he still won't eat on his own. I have force fed him but now he is assist fed and finally gaining weight nicely.

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Anyone else like to give input ask questions on it? May be useful to help some people make better informed decisions for 09 CFs when the time comes.

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www.regalreptiles.co.uk



2008 Corn Snakes Available (Aztec, Caramel, Charcol, Hypo, Hypo Stripe)

2 Male Royals Avaiable: 1 Proven Breeder, 1 66% Poss Het Pied Ready To Breed

its nice to hear about the level of care that get given to cf royals befor they are sold on, my royal is cf but is a healthy and active snake so go's to show they are not as bad as some people make them out to be

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corn snakes anery,amel,creamsical. mexican black king snake
http://snakesnthings.blogspot.com/

Captive Farmed snakes are only as good or bad as the people who take them on in the first instance.

Those who buy them just to make a quick buck with no consideration for the animals welfare will in turn come unstuck, have complaints, a damaged reputation and aid the bad name given to captive farming and help the careless importers.

Those who spend time, effort and money and shed blood, sweat and tears over them and work hard with animals being put first, customer service being 2nd only to animal welfare and taking care on where they obtain from e.g. not buying the last shipments we know are left lying around in feaces, pits, airports etc will further themselves and give those coming into the trade a better start and show that captive farmed animals can be as good as a captive bred animal and command the same price too.

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www.regalreptiles.co.uk



2008 Corn Snakes Available (Aztec, Caramel, Charcol, Hypo, Hypo Stripe)

2 Male Royals Avaiable: 1 Proven Breeder, 1 66% Poss Het Pied Ready To Breed