boelens hybrid - Page 8

essexchondro · #71 (**permalink**) 26-09-2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

I dont know the exact altitude they are found at though i know they are found higher than sea level. For the named problem of captive females not ovulating in captivity i hypothesis it has something to do with osmotic pressure? This changes at different altitudes. If they are kept out of altitudes they are used to and indeed designed for perhaps biologically they are so dependent on this it just wont hapen in captivity. Applying this hypothesis and trying to keep and breed them at higher altitudes could be a part of the puzzle. Though saying this, do they migrate down into warmer valleys seasonally? , perhaps a the wet season?

This is pure speculation born from little spinets of information and discusions ive had with fellow snake nerds

. I really cant wait for the long delayed book by Ari Fragles (co author) the black python. I have to also say that with such a specialised snake i cant believe private breeders will crack this unless they have full excess to breakthrough research from the field to aid them. Im sure i remember a similar problem with breeding Jacksons chameleons in captivity.

Could the problem that western breeders are having be due to the animals that we're importing coming from the higher altitudes rather than the lower altitudes (Jon-G mentioned that some populations have been found to live and breed at below 300 metres even though most are at 1000 metres plus)? Maybe we're just importing the boelens from the wrong populations?

Jon_G · #72 (**permalink**) 27-09-2008, 03:18 AM

Some interesting points being made here,

Few facts:
Bali is 1700 miles from the natural range of boeleni

West Java is 2300 miles from the natural range of boeleni

I am a western breeder doing it in Indonesia

There have been boeleni eggs laid outside of their normal laying time, I have seen eggs hatch in june/july time also.

There are other species of highland animals from West PNG which have been reproduced in captivity in the western world (adults taken directly from the wild not f1 babies as the boeleni would be)

Examples:
Wamena scrub python: Natural area approx 4000+ feet

Wamena chondros: as above...babies exported from indo would be f2:

Oxbil scrub python: 4700 ft

2 decades ago chondros were thought as impossible to keep let alone breed in captivity. now look !!

scrubs, notorioulsy difficult to breed..but now becoming more common place.

Boeleni less than 10 years ago thought almost impossible to keep alive in captivity....NOW people have the flourishing in captivity.

The successful breeding will come.

An inetersting topic!!

essexchondro · #73 (**permalink**) 27-09-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Some interesting points being made here,

Few facts:
Bali is 1700 miles from the natural range of boeleni

West Java is 2300 miles from the natural range of boeleni

I am a western breeder doing it in Indonesia

There have been boeleni eggs laid outside of their normal laying time, I have seen eggs hatch in june/july time also.

There are other species of highland animals from West PNG which have been reproduced in captivity in the western world (adults taken directly from the wild not f1 babies as the boeleni would be)

Examples:
Wamena scrub python: Natural area approx 4000+ feet

Wamena chondros: as above...babies exported from indo would be f2:

Oxbil scrub python: 4700 ft

2 decades ago chondros were thought as impossible to keep let alone breed in captivity. now look !!

scrubs, notorioulsy difficult to breed..but now becoming more common place.

Boeleni less than 10 years ago thought almost impossible to keep alive in captivity....NOW people have the flourishing in captivity.

The successful breeding will come.

An inetersting topic!!

So Indo captive bred boelens have been produced outside of the "natural" breeding season? Do you have any data on which populations these boelens originated from? I'm interested to know whether those from lower altitudes have a more "open" breeding season, or whether its the other way around, or whether there is no difference between animals from different altitudes in that respect.

Jon_G · #74 (**permalink**) 27-09-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essexchondro

So Indo captive bred boelens have been produced outside of the "natural" breeding season? Do you have any data on which populations these boelens originated from? I'm interested to know whether those from lower altitudes have a more "open" breeding season, or whether its the other way around, or whether there is no difference between animals from different altitudes in that respect.

Plenty...as micronesians would say...

All populations so far that have been reproduced in captivity in indonesia are originally from high elevations.

essexchondro · #75 (**permalink**) 27-09-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Plenty...as micronesians would say...

All populations so far that have been reproduced in captivity in indonesia are originally from high elevations.

Thanks for the info. I think that that could turn out to be quite an important factor. If its the higher elevation populations that are being captive bred in Indo (and their offspring exported to the west) maybe we in the west are always going to struggle to breed from those animals because we can't easily replicate the factors associated with higher altitudes. It would be very interesting to see how Indo bred boelens from lower elevations would fair in the west in terms of breeding success. Do you know of any plans to captive breed lower elevation populations in Indo?

Jon_G · #76 (**permalink**) 27-09-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essexchondro

Thanks for the info. I think that that could turn out to be quite an important factor. If its the higher elevation populations that are being captive bred in Indo (and their offspring exported to the west) maybe we in the west are always going to struggle to breed from those animals because we can't easily replicate the factors associated with higher altitudes. It would be very interesting to see how Indo bred boelens from lower elevations would fair in the west in terms of breeding success. Do you know of any plans to captive breed lower elevation populations in Indo?

Is this an armchair theory

???

essexchondro · #77 (**permalink**) 27-09-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Is this an armchair theory

???

It's speculation and hypothesising...which is all any of us can do since lower level populations have never been bred in the west or in Indonesia.

And for what its worth, my comments elsewhere regarding Indonesian captive bred reptiles are related to the experience of buying such animals in the UK as compared to buying western captive bred direct from the breeder. Since I'm a UK buyer I can hardly be accused of being an "armchair theorist" when making such comments...

but, of course, you always want to pretend that I'm slagging off the actual facilities in Indonesia themselves so that you can play your "armchair theorist" card.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode