Handling feisty snakes - Info

ratboy · #1 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 12:44 PM

What I would like to try with this thread is not a discussion of handling techniques but rather the actual experience of keepers of different species.

Now please do not post jokes or comments on other peoples posts. This is not what the thread is about. If you have an opinion on what someone posts, please start your own thread on the topic and discuss it there.

Basically I would like each post to be your methods of dealing with whatever feisty species you keep coupled with your opinions of why your methods work either on a particular snake or on a particular species. At the end of the thread we will hopefully have a pinnable thread with some insight into different species and their handling without the opinions of other keepers on your techniques.

This is the key point. I do not want to see peoples opinions of anyone elses posts or their content, as said, please start your own threads if you wish to do this. Jokes and off topic posts are also not welcome. If you consider a post to be dangerous or offering dangerous advice, report it to a moderator so they can use their discretion to deal with it.

This is really just an idea to see what happens and if it descends into the usual chaos.

royalpython · #2 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 12:59 PM

We've a WC (been in captivity for 7 years now) royal python.

My other half has never been bitten by any snakes and her method for dealing with this WC royal is to put a towel over the head of the snake to keep her calm.

My method is a little more hands on as i'm not too concerned about being bitten. I've managed to get her to the point of being handled and not strike, but i'm under a time limit with her until she unleashes the fury

Usually i make sure her head is facing the opposite from me, and i will confidently but gentle slide my hands underneath her, rather than grab her. I'm probably allowed to hold her like this for 30 seconds, and then my games up, and she starts striking. At one point i was being bitten at least once a month by her.

barrym · #3 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 01:00 PM

Depending on the species,size,aggression etc I either just pick em up,hook them or for the really nasty big ones I use closeable hide boxes that I can lock and just take out the viv.
Generally a good hook is more than adequate though.

ratboy · #4 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 01:01 PM

The most feisty snakes I keep are radiated rat snakes. This particular species actually 'hunt' my hand when I put it in the vivarium and will hide behind leaves and branches to try and take my moving hand by surprise. I try to use this to my advantage.

They tend to focus on things that move which they perceive as a threat and do not like to let that threat leave their sight. My plan of campaign for them is therefore as follows.

1. Determine where in the vivarium the snake is. This is quite easy as on opening the glass, the snake generally approaches then backs off and goes in to strike pose.

2. Put a hand in the viv out of strike range and keep it moving very slowly. The snake will follow the hand with its head and give that hand its full, undivided attention.

3. Very slowly move the other hand into the vivarium trying not to distract the snake from your other hand.

4. If the snake notices the second hand, stop moving it completely but keep the first hand moving until the snake gives that hand its attention again. At this point, the snake will be unsure so it will generally gape it's mouth open in full Double-S strike pose. Once it is concentrating on the first hand again, move the second hand again very slowly.

5. If you can get the snake interested enough in the first hand, this all becomes second nature. It is generally so engrossed, that you can literally pick the snake up with the second hand quite easily as long as the first hand stays in view. They seem very single minded so once they have decided that something is a threat, it is very hard to persuade them otherwise... which is good

6. Once the snake is out of the vivarium. Do your best to avoid eye contact. This is a key threat to them and the time you are most likely to get bitten. If eye contact is made, wave your free hand to distract the attention of the snake and look away from it.

Steve.

carpy · #5 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 01:29 PM

i do not have any feisty snakes in captivity, though i have handled a fair few wild ones. the most aggressive species for me were both on the same trip, the montpellier snake, Malpodon montpessulanus, and the large whip snake, Coluber caspius. in both cases i was able to handle any juveniles of the species without any problem, and once they realised that no harm was coming to them, they were relaxed. however, the adult snakes were a differant story.
local greek friends had the attitude of find the snake, kill the snake, so when i found this snake about 40 yeards from their house i thought it best to move it. coupled with the fact that montpellier snakes are venomous (albeit mildy venomous) ,there was a 3 week old baby in the house and these snakes are known for their aggression meant for me it was best to move the snake

snake in question, an adult montpellier snake basking on the road with its head facing away from me. i had only a medium snake pin and a large snake hook. i would estimate this snake to be around 200cm, so a large adult. in this area there were sightings of larger ones up to 240cm.
i got the hook and pin ready, and then very slowly moved towards the snake, with very small movements, ensuring i vibrated the ground as little as possible.
when i was about 4 metres away, the snake noticed my presence, and turned to face me. it hissed, and started to flatten its neck slightly, something which got my pulse going slightly! didnt know montpellier snakes could hood either, so very interesting.
the snake was obviously not going to move away into the cover. it realised its size, and i assume the fact that it is the top predator in the area made it more aggressive, if a little cumbersome.
she started hissing, and then began to approach. at 3 metres away (she way moving forward slowly) i started to move the extended hook towards her, whilst moving the pin right out, making myself as wide as possible.
she seemed slightly drawn to the end of the pin, and started striking towards it. when she did that, she exposed her tail, and rear part of her body
i then hooked the rear part of ther body, and held onto the tail. i moved the hook right up her body, so it was close to her head, which meant that if she did strike i was able to at least temporarily slow down the strike.
she was still aggressive and hissing, but was laying down on the ground, with her head just out of reach of the pin. so i shuffled her body down my hand, allowing her, when coiled slightly and with her tail up near my head(!) to be within reach of the pin. this is what made me guage her size at around 2m.
at this point, she was looking around repeatedly, but on turning back to face away from me, it gave me to opportunity to pin her head. then it was a case of getting a good hold of her head, and picking her up.
i then put the whole snake into a pillowcase (not ideal with a venomous snake but oh well, all i had) leaving, just her head outside, being held by my hand. i then dropped the head, and bunched up the top.
when releasing her i simply put down the bag in a thick shrubland area, which allowed her to feel secure. after a little while she moved off.

Sorted!

p.s - i do not condone handling of wild snakes, unless there is a specific reason for it. in this case, the inherant danger to both the snake and the baby within the household. i have only ever handled wild snakes either for the above reason, for scientific purposes when logging species, and when a snake was in a human settlement causing danger to the snake, and in the bothrops asper case in costa rica, danger to myself and the rest of the team.

Alex

ratboy · #6 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 02:50 PM

The good old North American rat snake species has a thoroughly undeserved reputation for being feisty in my opinion. Individuals are generally predictable in their behaviour and they rarely do anything that will take you by surprise once you know the snake ... unless of course there is something going on that you cannot see.

They do not take kindly to being cornered and would much rather escape from you than fight you. Unfortunately, in a vivarium, being cornered is almost inevitable since it is a box. So the snake has no choice but to confront you. It does this by coiling itself into a corner and visibly clenching it's jaw. If you look at them from above, you can see the rear of the head widen. This is, in my opinion, why most reported bites from these species ( Black, Yellow, Everglades, Texas and Grey rat snakes ) occur when the keeper is trying to get the snake out of the vivarium.

There are many keepers that say simply be confident with these snakes, they will learn that biting you has no effect and will stop doing it... not an opinion I am in agreement with since the keeper is basically ignoring the stress the snake if being placed under.

My method of dealing with these is simply to wait. I open the vivarium door, let the snake back in to the corner and get defensive, place my hand just inside the vivarium well out of strike range .... and wait for the snake to make it's move.

The point here is that the snake has an extremely good fight or flight response and it has an escape route. Since I am in front of it, it can move off to the side. Once it has decided to move off (flight response) then it is normally safe just to reach in and pick it up. All it will then do is get faster when you touch it in an attempt to evade capture. This makes it a good idea to keep the snake in a fairly large vivarium to give the snake somewhere to run to.

The other thing about these species is that they are incredibly inquisitive. So much so, that I would imagine that in the wild it costs a lot of them their lives. This is the point of putting my hand in the vivarium... out of strike range so it is not seen as a threat. On many occasions, the snakes inquisitiveness will get the better of it, and it will approach you instead of taking the flight option. Over a period of weeks ( or months ) the snake will happily come right out of the vivarium once the door is opened as if you are not even there.

If I *have* to pick a member of these species up... and do not have the time to play the waiting game. I use the same sort of technique that I use for the radiated rat snake. Give the snake something to take it's attention such as a bit of wood, metal... anything that is not warm... then pick it up while its interest is taken. The snake may well turn and bite when this happens so I try to keep the back of my hand towards it's head so that the snake has nothing to latch on to if it strikes.

ratboy · #7 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 04:17 PM

any more ?

Would love to hear the schemes used to handle the bigger snakes on their bad days

snickers · #8 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 04:19 PM

I have had very little interaction with really nippy snakes. Once in hand many snakes are far less aggressive than in the viv. Also the way a snake is held is important. If it's allowed to slide slowly through the hand it's less aggressive. If it's held so it's can't move it's liable to thrash around, musk or strike or all three. A lot of snakes are also headshy. Holding then on or near the head will cause them to thrash or strike. You get a feel for how far up the body you can hold a snake, even when using a hook.

- Taiwan beauty snake. This one wouldn't bite, but was very fast. We used to open the door and catch the snake as it launched itself out. The only way to hold it was to grip it so that it could move through your fingers, but slow it down at the same time. Never let go

- Carpet python babies. We had a bunch of nippy babies and now have one nippy female. Getting her from the viv to hand is a problem. Once in hand she's OKish. I use a hook to lift the body and just move my hand under as she reacts. Once in hand just avoid fast movements.
A glove would be good too 'cos I'd then have more confidence to just pick the snake up. Less stress to both parties.
It's not that a strike from a carpet hurts it's the shock, and the possibility of pulling your hand away fast. If the snake is already attached that could do damage.

ratboy · #9 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 04:34 PM

I have bred my Taiwanese beauties for the last two years. My take on the hatchlings is that they bite without warning... No tail rattling or S'ing up... just chomp.

Unusually, picking them up does not seem to bother the babies in the slightest. The baby was simply interested in the big wide world as soon as the lid was lifted from it's tub. If getting on my hand was a means to getting out... that was fine. They really did seem to view me as a warm tree.

Once out... extremely inquisitive and placid babies but they would bite at anything that moved too quickly for them but then carry on as though nothing had happened.

Akua_Ko_Nalu · #10 (**permalink**) 27-01-2008, 06:45 PM

With my single aggressive Blood Python, I simply place a cloth or towel over his head to keep him calm, then I take him behind the neck and then he's mine!

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