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thats silly.. hope its not gonna trn out detrimental and negative for the hobby... or IL turn into a bloody terrorist!

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Source? Where did this information come from Rory?

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http://www.herorat.org Go on sponsor a rat today and possibly save a life

Whilst I normally agree with most of your very informed input, I have to disagree with some things here Rory. Please correct me if I have gotten the wrong end of the stick however!

I think for years people's perceptions have been "Its just a bug". A simple search of youtube will provide countless occassions where an invert is used for "sport" (bugfights.com) or is mistreated and stressed (i.e incorrect handling, used as a scare prop on friends etc). I think some form of protection is over due. Mistreatment does occur, but as far as I know, if its an invert there isnt a lot you can do about it currently (I may of course be wrong here).

I dont know enough to comment on the rest of the issue at hand (such as future legislation). However, I feel that a lot of the negative image publicly is due to inexperienced owners rushing out, buying lots of inverts without proper knowledge and then experiencing high mortality - with the tag "oh well, its just a bug". I've seen that attitude first hand with solifuges, so it does occur - I was quoted "i'd like to try one, and if it dies, oh well, they are only £8". Until we shake off that sort of attitude, then I guess i'm all for protection for inverts.


-GRB

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"All I know is my gut says maybe"

Brachypelma albopilosum (Charlotte)
Typopeltis sp. (Seigfried, Roy)
Galeodes arab. (Yojimbo)

Member of the BAS and AAS.

Fixx,

If the originator of this gem decides to come on board and elaborate l feel sure that will happen.

All l can say is that this is fresh from this week, when the 'source' as you make mention to was asked if they would support the campaign for placing Tarantulas on the AWA.

I believe their answer was in the negative.

GRB, the whole point behind this is not scaremongering as perhaps Fixx would like people to think ....

No, this is something that Headquarters RSPCA is looking into. Inverts have long been looked into joining the AWA, the RSPCA were in fact very keen to see livefoods [cultures] placed upon it alongside Stick Insects.

R

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so does that mean we gotta start weaning our Tarantulas onto vegtables....or are they gonna be protected soon?

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If tarantulas, scorpions and such, are afforded no protection as animals - should they be sold as pets?

The whole pulling the leg of their spiders is not far from things that do happen. We see time and time again Youtube videos of people posting rather cruel and horrible ways to die for tarantulas. Is there enough scentific evidence to say that tarantulas cannot suffer, cannot feel pain? They certainly feel stress as they react very strongly to it.

Of course I would not want livefood to go on the AWA as we know this will be a downward spiral for all, but neither do I want people to be able to buy a pet, and then treat it like something that can be stepped on when they're bored of it. But how far do the rights of invertebrates need to extend?

Does the AWA extend to fish, out of interest? Because people still catch and eat fish, so if it does, there must be a line between food fish and pet fish, just as there should be a line between food inverts and pet inverts so it's possible the precedent has been set? If fish aren't on there, surely if they are introducing inverts, fish should be.

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No internet at home for a few weeks, may take a while to respond. Should be back to normal in Sept.

To be honest Christy, all animals are subjected to cruelty and there would be nothing to deny that Tarantulas and all inverts suffer at the hands of abuse. This l will never deny.

Should fish be placed under the AWA?

Time will tell, as said, they were looking at placing Inverts into it, l seem to recall a post about it last year.

Whether fish are actually placed upon it, well in the same eyes that wish to place Inverts upon it, why should they not be.

My politics have changed quite dramatically in the last few months as my closest friends, associates, clients and colleagues will verify. Now l am supposed to be an anti, and whilst this is not entirely true, l do think that we should all be looking at things very differently.

As said, both yourself and GRB have paid acknowledgement to the truthful fact that Spiders, indeed all inverts have come under abusive hands and that we all know that children can be quite cruel to insects in their growing up stage - what is not possible in todays legislation?

R

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If tarantulas were to be added to the AWA I would think it wise to actually campaign/encourage fish to be added too. There are far more fisherman in this country than there are lizard keepers and to make fishing illegal would cause a LOT more stink than making feeding insects illegal. Extending to invertebrates - do fishermen not use live bait also?

If inverts go on, so should fish, and if fish go on, they will have to make a distinction between pet fish and others, they will have no way of banning all catching of fish as food items or sport.

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No internet at home for a few weeks, may take a while to respond. Should be back to normal in Sept.

Ironically enough ......... the keeping of fish as pets is as you know covered by the AWA.

Recreational fishing and commercial fishing is exempt.

So whilst you can be done by not keeping your fish clean & insufficient water will see you get clobbered etc.

But it is perfectly acceptable to trawl your nets in the ocean, cramp fish together till their eyes bulge, haul them out of the water and drop them some twenty feet onto a hard deck and then gut them whilst they still breathe - that is acceptable.

You could even buy a goldfish , dig your hook into it and cast it over the waters where upon it may be gulped down by a frigging great pike - and that is acceptable.

Reminds me of the agricultural market where upon thousands of day old chicks can be fed, alive and wriggling into a mincer, with their screams[cheeps] deafening the abuser - but that too is acceptable, YET, if l go out my back door and step upon the toe of my cockerel, that is cruelty!!?

Strange eh?

Well the AWA has an extension open for inverts anyway, so they would just need to slot it in there.

R

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