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Complete newbie confused by conflicting advice

9K views 169 replies 14 participants last post by  ian14 
#1 ·
Hi All,

I'm a complete newbie to reptile keeping, having only had cats all my life. I've always wanted reptiles and am now in a position to start. Ideally I'd like a blue tongued skink but I worry that needing a uvb light and food supplements etc might be too much for a complete beginner like me. I've been reading up on snakes and corn snakes look great, particularly granite morph as I'm a geologist, but then I discovered small boas, particularly the Rosy Boa and Kenyan Sand Boa. These both seem very good starter snakes, being docile, slow, having no uvb needs etc. However, the more I read the more confused I get. The Northampton reptile centre produces lots of care sheets and videos and they keep all of their reptiles on coarse beech chips, including their sand boas. This goes directly against what I've read in this forum, particularly the thread on loose substrates and impact which states not to use wood chips.

What do people think? Firstly, are these good snakes for a complete beginner? If so, are coarse beech chips ok?

Here is the sand Boa care sheet I read: https://www.reptilecentre.com/info-kenyan-sand-boa-care-sheet

And a video of a sand Boa living in wood chips: https://youtu.be/bvrx7EM5Hko

Thanks for any help!
 
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#3 ·
The Northampton reptile centre produces lots of care sheets and videos and they keep all of their reptiles on coarse beech chips, including their sand boas. This goes directly against what I've read in this forum, particularly the thread on loose substrates and impact which states not to use wood chips.
But they also go on to recommend sand.

Whilst any loose substrate has the small potential to be accidentally swallowed, we have found this to not be a problem with coarse beech woodchips and that is what we keep our Kenyan sand boas on. It is also very easy to clean. This snake is quite fond of burrowing, if you would like a loose substrate to allow this we would recommend a fine sand.
Snakes have evolved over millions of years based on the habitat they originate from. Most snakes in the wild will end up ingesting dirt, leaf litter, and in the case of a snake that burrows, sand and earth whilst feeding. The issue comes when a snake is kept on an inappropriate substrate that it can't deal with. An 8' boa ingesting a 4mm x 4mm chip of wood will more than likely have no issue in passing it through its digestive tract . A smaller snakes such as a Corn would have more difficulty and it could end up stuck at either end of the tract. The only time it "may" be safe is if the snake is too small to actually swallow the large chipping.

If you want a safe lose substrate that the snake can burrow in, and if ingested presents no problem then look at Megazorb. It's paper based, absorbent and cheap. It has a natural grey colouration, but still looks a tad artificial. If you want a natural substrate then follow others advice and use a mix of play sand and eco earth as Ian suggests.

You also need to take on board that whilst there are people like me who have been keeping and breeding snakes for 30+ years, we all do thing differently, but base our opinions on our own experiences, be them good or bad. It's all part of the learning curve. Provided you offer the snake a means to get warm, a means to cool down, water, a photo-period (again debatable depending on individuals viewpoint) and a decent diet then how you do that is down to you. You may go with suggestions from one caresheet, or a comment on a forum, but until you experience something for your self, and go with what suits. If the consensus is that method X is better than Y from half a dozen post then try method X. If your snake reacts different to it then try method Y , or come up with your own solution and if that works then tell us all about it :)
 
#4 ·
Corn snakes are great to start with, but when you decide you want to take the next step, which wont take long you'll be in a position of having a snake n a vivarium to replace(waste of money n stress on the snake and yourself) which is pointless.
I look at all animals including reptiles etc as the same. Look at this way, would u keep ya cat in a room everyday of its life when it's meant to roam around?.
If ya answer is yes. Then a pet ain't for you at all.

So okay, you'd like a snake, something that'll get to know you, you'd be happy handling no matter what size it gets to, as that's ya baby n you've had her from a baby.
Then go with a carpet python.
I brought my baby at just over 7 weeks old n left the vivarium door open 24-7 so her and my dogs would get along. She always went back to her home every night.
Nagini is now 4 years old, is thicker than my awesome arm muscles(seriously God like, though my partner disagrees) and is still a cuddly sweetheart.
She was In a tiny vivarium at the time n people/breeders think that's fine as they make money quick. Whereas they've been caged from a huge area they roam to make some a few quid.
If you take a snake on, think about that.
I built Nagini a custom made, double glazed 6ftx4ftx2ft vivarium with multiple heaters, waterfall and fogger to imitate the jungle and only ever fed her on dead rats(soon to be rabbits) as live ones make them violent.
She has been an amazing part of the as much as my boy Bruno aka dog has been.
I'll send pics of her vivarium over shortly.

Have a good think though as they'll live 30 years plus sweetheart
 
#6 ·
I brought my baby at just over 7 weeks old n left the vivarium door open 24-7 so her and my dogs would get along. She always went back to her home every night.
Nagini is now 4 years old, is thicker than my awesome arm muscles(seriously God like, though my partner disagrees) and is still a cuddly sweetheart.
She was In a tiny vivarium at the time n people/breeders think that's fine as they make money quick. Whereas they've been caged from a huge area they roam to make some a few quid.
If you take a snake on, think about that.
I built Nagini a custom made, double glazed 6ftx4ftx2ft vivarium with multiple heaters, waterfall and fogger to imitate the jungle and only ever fed her on dead rats(soon to be rabbits) as live ones make them violent.
She has been an amazing part of the as much as my boy Bruno aka dog has been.
I'll send pics of her vivarium over shortly.

Have a good think though as they'll live 30 years plus sweetheart
Some would say that given the recent bad press concerning escaped snakes that the above is bad advice for a newbie.

Care to update your user profile to include your location as well... so many new posters don't do this.
 
#8 ·
Well if people dont have the common sense to understand that their reptile is actually wild at heart and leave the doors open until they're fully trained, then they shouldn't be allowed to have one as a pet in the first place.
I do apologise, but has one joined this forum on the understanding that we all have a basic knowledge of reptiles and their intelligence, hence why vivariums come with secure locks with keys.
Didn't realise I'd have to explain the entire cosmos all in detail whilst trying to aid someone to purchasing the ideal snake.

Though thanks for correcting my wrong doing and in future I'll be sure to elaborate on every minute detail
 
#10 ·
Bar a few species, snakes lack the ability to be trained. Retics have shown to have the intelligence to recognise individuals, but that could be more to do with other sensory organs having a lot to do with it.

Most on here respect that fact that even after decades of captive breeding that snakes are still wild animals. In captivity they tolerate human contact and interaction, to various degrees. Even that calm placid boa that has never shown any sign of defence or aggression can strike and bite, and when basic instincts kick in such at feeding times any "training" goes out of the window.

Snakes have two main drives, both in the wild and in captivity. To look for food / water and to look for a mate when the season is such. In order to do both they need to thermoregulate. The fact that you say the snake kept returning to its open vivarium is more down to the fact that was the only heat source it found than returning to its enclosure the same was a dog returns to its basket at night. If the snake roamed and found the warmth of the airing cupboard it would stay there.

As mentioned I've been in this hobby 30+ years. I keep my snakes in as large an enclosure as will physically fit in the space my home permits. They get handled only at the regular vivarium cleaning, inspection after a shed or other action such as egg laying, or if I notice a difference in their normal behaviour. I don't treat them as pets and get them out to sit and watch the TV with me in the same way I do with our German Shepherd. All cages are locked as I'm sure that if they were let out when a hatchling as part of some "training" regime they would be long gone by now and no doubt feature in the local media as another escaped snake news item.

Anyway, now you have some guidelines lets see this amazing trained carpet python and enclosure. Maybe you can elaborate on its behaviour? Does it still exhibit that trait most carpets show of suddenly swing around as if to nail you, but stopping at the last minute ?
 
#9 ·
Good Morning,

And welcome to the wonderful world of reptiles! There is no going back now, once you get one you will be addicted! :2thumb:

I can totally understand your frustration, so much conflicting advice online and it can be very off putting for a beginner! What i will say is your doing the right thing by doing a lot of research from different resources, even if it is confusing - It's worth it!

The truth is (and no one likes to admit this) but we all keep our reptiles slightly differently and we can all argue to death about which is the correct way but we'll never be 100% sure unless we find a way to talk to the animal.

For example, I keep my Sand Boa on a bioactive substrate of sand mixed with eco earth - many will scream 'oh my god, impaction!!!' but i keep an eye on my snakes at all times when feeding and i've had no problems so far. My choice for this substrate was natural enrichment for the snake and ease for me. Originally she (and many of my other snakes) were on Aspen but that severely triggered my asthma & so i made the choice to convert all to bioactive and she absolutley loves burrowing under the sand... sad truth is i hardly ever see her but she's doing really well & so i'm happy to say the sand is staying.

I see no issues with the beech chips, i personally wouldn't use them but if they work for you and your snake then go for it. Of course if you want to be extra cautious and get concerned about impaction then you could always use kitchen roll but from experience I can't see how a burrowing species would make use of this - Each to there own though.

In theory, yes sand boa's are good beginner snakes. However, it's one of those questions that's really hard to answer because there is always an exception to the rule. I've had my sand boa since a hatchling and she's extremely snappy & jumpy & she's showing no signs of calming down but MOST people with pet sand boa's will tell you they are very docile & sweet. There husbandry is super easy & i'd certainly consider this side of keeping them to be 'beginner worthy' - If you do decide to keep on a loose substrate, don't be surprised if you never see him/her, they love burrowing & stay underground for ages.

I can't comment on rosy boa's as i've had no experience with them but i would imagine they are similar to Sand Boas.
 
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#11 ·
Wow, thank you all for the advice. It's a lot to take in but i want to get it correct first time so it's worth doing it properly.

I'm leaning more towards a Rosy Boa at the moment if i can find one close enough to go and look at myself in person. Failing that, is couriering ok? I see most shops offer it but again I don't want to do something that could potentially harm the snake before it's even arrived. I figure a professional courier would be better at transporting a snake for 5 hours than I would though.

For the enclose, are starter kits like this any good, or are they a trap to suck newbies in and would need upgrading very quickly afterwards? To return to substrate chat, this pack includes the choice of 4 different substrates, and on reading up on them Lignocel sounds ideal for a burrowing snake. Any thoughts on Lignocel?

Is there any such thing as too big a viv for a snake? Rosys don't grow big, 3' for females and 2' for males, so a large tank isn't necessary, but is it *better*, or could it be too big and make a snake feel lost and scared?

Sorry for all the questions!
 
#12 ·
Not read the whole thread as I'm in work right now, but just want to say research as much as you possibly can. This will save you time and money in the future. There is not any one way to keep an animal and each method has it's pros and cons. You will find arguments for and against pretty much all aspects of care so it's best to take everything with a pinch of salt and make up your own mind.


Care sheets are a good starting place but often tell you the minimum requirements for keeping reptiles so are pretty basic. I'm often skeptical of caresheets provided by online stores/pet shops as I feel they try to push certain products that might not be relevant plus their "starter setups" are usually pretty awful. This forum has a great archive of discussions so use the search function. Also, facebook groups can be good but there are many idiots on them who will take shots at people to boost their own ego. Don't be afraid of them though and ask questions no matter how basic they might be. If you get shot down by anyone, just know that the rest of us think they are dickheads too!


Last thing I'll suggest are podcasts. The main ones I listen to are Animals at Home for a formal discussion and Reptile n Chill which can be off putting when you first listen as they are very informal! But they have had some very knowledgable guests on and have a great community group.






Is there any such thing as too big a viv for a snake? Rosys don't grow big, 3' for females and 2' for males, so a large tank isn't necessary, but is it *better*, or could it be too big and make a snake feel lost and scared?

IMO larger is better providing it is setup well. Snakes like to feel secure so providing plenty of cover is essential. Personally, I wouldn't provide anything less than a viv at least as long as the snake itself. When I first got my snake I had 2 hides and a water bowl and I barely saw my snake. Now I provide it 6 hides of various sizes, plenty of fake plants cover, a bit of leaf litter and deep substrate so it can go from one end of the viv to the other without ever being seen. However, I see it more now than I ever did with a more basic enclosure.


That's me done, good luck! I gotta do some work now...
 
#15 · (Edited)
OK, hope the following helps save you a bit of cash. - Monkfield vivs tend to have a poor reputation. I've not used Repti-vivs myself, but they have been reviewed on YT and are well received

48" x 18" x 18" solid back vivarium form Repti-life (https://www.repti-life.co.uk/ - £83.99
48" cabinet to suit the above - £92.99

The following were sourced from Swell Reptiles website

Evo lite stat - £88.05 ( a nice stat, but cheaper alternatives can be found saving £50 or there about)
Komodo 100w CHE - £17.70
Guard - £6.99
Bracket - £11.58

Starter unit for T8 tube - £27.79
5% UV tube - 45" - £15.29
Reflector - £12.94

I've not bothered pricing up water bowls etc as these are so varied and IMO some of the so called "rock" / "natural" looking bowls are a pain to clean and don't hold a lot of water. Any of the ceramic rabbit / cat / dog bowls are fine (and cheaper)

The above comes to £360.32

Buying a cheaper basic pulse proportional thermostat could save you £50 and still do the job, but doesn't have all the functionality as the Eco range.

The "package deal" for the same size viv from Global (link you provided) including substrate comes to £402. - Are the branches, hide an water bowls worth the £42 extra - and you'll end up with a mediocre quality vivarium.
 
#17 ·
Do you have shares in Northampton Reptiles :)

Personally I would get a vivarium from the link I provided. Here's a review https://youtu.be/H55QsUQsy_8

I wouldn't trust that easy vent option - if that got pulled out as a result of a snake using the wires as a branch then you'll be searching for days to find your snake.

Sweet talk the wife just to get permission to place a viv on top of the unit.... I know that... this cost me a months worth of washing up duties :)

 
#18 ·
Do you have shares in Northampton Reptiles :)
:lol2: They happened to have the various vivs i was looking at all on one page, and at a decent price, so it was easiest to link them all from there.

Personally I would get a vivarium from the link I provided. Here's a review https://youtu.be/H55QsUQsy_8

I wouldn't trust that easy vent option - if that got pulled out as a result of a snake using the wires as a branch then you'll be searching for days to find your snake.

Sweet talk the wife just to get permission to place a viv on top of the unit.... I know that... this cost me a months worth of washing up duties :)

image
Thanks for this. I clicked reply before your second post and then took ages posting so missed it completely. I'll watch the video while i cook dinner. Point taken on the easy vent, i thought i must be missing something to justify the extra cost, but if they have a potential flaw like that I'll steer well clear. Sadly I already do all the washing up, maybe the vacuuming would be an option....
 
#21 ·
Lung, yes the difference is basically 18mm rather than 15mm.

Chris, as I commented, nice set up, but personally I wouldn't have run all four vivs from one stat due to possible thermal gradient between the top and bottom vivs in the stack. I presume the probe is placed in one of the two middle vivs ?

You could do with something like this

https://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/1268905-rackstat.html :)
 
#22 ·
hi Malc, as it stands i am still running the 4 on the 1 stat yes, the probe is in the 2nd viv down and youre correct there is indeed a difference in temps in identical positions in each viv but each viv still has a good range of temps from hot to cool in each viv so with temp monitoring wit a laser thermometer im not overly concerned at the moment.
The snakes move between hot and cool ends , i suspect come winter this may change as the vivs are close by a window and my intention is to add more stats to the stack.

i do have a question tho, hides....finding a hide suitably sized for an adult boa has proved difficult, i was using hanging basket liners as they are a reasonable size but still not ideal, 1 size wise, 2ndly these pesky boas have no respect for the things and squash them lol.

what have you found that works and yet still enables good cleaning or are cheap enough to be throw away?..id prefer to have something pleasing on the eye and in keeping with a naturalistic look
 
#23 ·
I personally gave up putting a hide in with my boa. He seldom used it even when he could fit in it. I've seen people use covers for pond filters as hides. These tend to look like rock on the outside, and come in many sizes



Maybe on the small size - 19" x 12" x 5" - £17

Others are larger



Maybe worth a trip to your local pond supplier
 
#24 ·
I have spent this morning watching Corn Snake videos instead of working and now i'm thinking a Corn might be the way to go over a Rosy as a first snake, due to how active they are. Argh, there are too many beautiful snakes to choose from!
 
#26 ·
Corn snakes are amazing and so adorable, I love them!

You can get so many different morphs as well, just take a look at how beautiful they all are:

Ians Vivarium - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs

Of course, you can't beat the wild types though.
 
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#25 ·
I do think a corn might be a bit more fun. They're also extremely easy to look after.

A corn will definitely use as much space as you can offer, including height.

They're happy on all sorts of substrates but something that allows them to burrow is ideal as they do seem to like to do this. But equally they climb and move around a lot in full view, once over their shy phase as youngsters.
 
#33 ·
Agree with the above, the 2018 will probably be calmer, and you'll have a slightly clearer idea of how it will look as an adult.

That said, I always like to get them as young as possible so they are very much 'mine' their whole lives. I've never been as into animals I have taken on at later stages. Maybe I'm just weird!

If the 2019 is skittish, it will calm down in time.

Whichever one it is, make sure it's eating regularly.
 
#34 ·
The local shop only has CB18s in stock at the moment, i was asking more generally about whether i should aim for a 19 if possible or if an 18 would be fine. I do like the idea of an 19 being calmer and already well established with feeding and shedding, but like you i also like the idea of having the snake from as young as possible and watching it develop and change colour and personality.
 
#41 ·
The deep heat projector needs a dimmer stat. ALL forms of heating needs to be thermostatically controlled - notes and comments are in the stickies at the top of the snake section - worth reading rather than me retype what's already been written !

Also the forum has an excellent search engine - top right - "search this forum" and use "deep heat projector" as the search string - all previous discussions will get thrown up
 
#42 ·
The deep heat projector needs a dimmer stat. ALL forms of heating needs to be thermostatically controlled - notes and comments are in the stickies at the top of the snake section - worth reading rather than me retype what's already been written !
I've read them and know I need a thermostat. Sorry i wasn't very clear. I was wondering if i could use a stat to reduce the temperature produced by a Deep Heat Projector to a significantly lower value due to it hanging low in the viv, or if i'd be better off getting a different type of lamp.
 
#48 ·
I've always been an advocate of a decent controlled day/night cycle, using small under cupboard kitchen lights to provide the illumination. I've even gone as far as installing LED lights in the new hatchling rack I've just built (must be a first as I've never seen lighting in a rack system before !).

If you use the search function you should be able to bring up all the previous discussions about UV enrichment for snakes. It's beneficial, but the snake won't suffer unduly if you don't offer UV. It all depends on your budget, and to the complexity of the set up.

I don't hold with everything this chap says, and I wouldn't use the substrate, but if you want inspiration have a look at this guys channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umpt6fks0ng&ab_channel=Jensen%27sReptiles
 
#49 ·
Thanks for the video. It doesn't seem too hard to add a UVB light to a setup, so it might be worth it, particularly in winter when we won't be getting 12 hours of daylight or even close. Would a mat for the cold side be a good idea for if room temp drops too low? In winter our house thermostat is set to come on at 19c, so it's possible the room the viv will be in might be around that on a cold day.
 
#51 ·
Agreed - although every care sheet you read will tell you to keep your corn from 20 to 30, a glance at their geographical distribution in the wild will let you know that these are guidelines only, and actually it's only the hot spot you need to worry about providing, along with the ability to get away from it. The rest of the enclosure can be whatever the room temperature is, assuming you're in a normal home in the UK or other temperate country.
 
#54 ·
In the wild they have a wide range so you may still end up with confusion :)

But, being a N. American Rat snake they experience similar temperatures to the UK. In the winter months they will generally stop feeding and burmate ( not really a hibernation, but they find somewhere to settle away from the extreme cold until the warmer spring months.

Hence there is no need for supplemental heating of the cool side in captivity
 
#55 ·
Starting to think about the hides I'll need for the viv. As i'll be likely to have a small snake in a big viv to begin with, should i get small hides and then upgrade them later when the snake is bigger? Or is it ok to start with bigger hides? I'm planning 5 or 6 at ground level, with a combo of single-entrance caves and tunnels? Then there will be branches leading to higher hides too, plus foliage for shade. Does all that sound ok?
 
#56 ·
All sounds great - 5 or 6 is a very good number, and the idea to put them at different levels is also great.

You should definitely provide small hides and swap them out for bigger ones as the snake grows, but I think your approach of doing this in the big 'forever' viv from the outset is the right one.
 
#58 ·
I wouldn't worry about the hygrometer or sealant. Neither are needed for a corn.
You don't need a lock and wedges, just get a lock.
For a water bowl, rather than a branded one you can easily go to somewhere like Poundland and get a ceramic dog bowl for a pound.
Dianfectant again can be non reptile branded, such as Milton solution.
Make sure that the thermostat is a dimmer. A normal dimmer is fine for a corn. £48 instead of £70.
Substrate, just use bark chip, the eco earth is really for humid environments.
For plastic plants get some from a florist, reptile branded ones are a rip off.
 
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