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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-2015, 11:06 PM
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So they ban reptile shows, what next?

Stop people keeping reptiles? Have amnesty bins to put your reptiles into prior to them being sent off for lethal injections? I think not.

Worst that is ever going to happen is licensing of keeping reptiles. They cannot do it for dangerous dogs so doing it for pet reptiles (the majority which cannot even be considered as invasive species) will never happen.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-2015, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MoreliaUK View Post
He does not know, you do not know, the anti reptile lobby do not know and neither do the FBH or even David Cameron and the Lord Almighty.

Stop scaremongering
What I do know is that kempton 2015 is not happening and that the judicial review will impact reptilekeeping in some way. I would like kempton and other shows to continue, that much I DO KNOW. The continued closing down of reptile events by antis is a fact and their desire to end reptilekeeping is a fact. People saying don't worry it's not a big deal when they don't appear to even understand the consequences of what is happening now is rather obtuse in my opinion. If people don't want to contribute to the judicial review fund they don't have to, but the people fighting for us to win that judicial review are the only ones taking the antis on. Armchair experts who think there's no point in doing anything seem to think their right to continue to keep reptiles as they always have will be safeguarded and protected by the reptile fairies at the bottom of the garden. I do not think that keeping the antis at bay and speculating about the possibility of future restrictions caused by their lobbying is scaremongering, I do however think that saying it's not worth worrying about it and contributing no useful strategy to a problem that is happening now is ignorant, and it doesn't help my rights to keep my reptiles.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-2015, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MoreliaUK View Post
How many shows are there in the UK each year? Very few I imagine; the number probably only just gets into double figures. If the shows go it will be a small loss and only a small victory to the so called antis (if it were them who gets them stopped). If however they got them banned from being sold at pet shops then it would be something else but that is unlikely to happen. It's been the same old same old battle for the last 20 years I have been keeping reptiles seriously and both parties are still exactly where they were when all this started back then!
I'd rather see a 20 year battle than no battle at all.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-2015, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MoreliaUK View Post
So they ban reptile shows, what next?

Stop people keeping reptiles? Have amnesty bins to put your reptiles into prior to them being sent off for lethal injections? I think not.

Worst that is ever going to happen is licensing of keeping reptiles. They cannot do it for dangerous dogs so doing it for pet reptiles (the majority which cannot even be considered as invasive species) will never happen.


The antis have told me their goal is small victory's, bit by bit is their plan, they know they cannot just close down shops.

To some like yourself, shows mean nothing to your hobby, to others they enjoy them, why can't we respect this ? I think I remember meeting you at a show, seemed like you were enjoying it ?

If they win, what next ? pet shops won't be the next target, internet sales and imports will be the next target in my opinion.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-2015, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Uromastyxman View Post
What I do know is that kempton 2015 is not happening and that the judicial review will impact reptilekeeping in some way.
OK, I've done more googling and read some old threads on here and other forums. The only impact I can see, should it go in favour of the council is that shows will eventually cease. If the review does go in favour of the council I can't see how this can be linked to stopping you or any of us keeping reptiles. This review (again as far as I can see) will not legislate the legality on keeping and breeding reptiles.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-2015, 11:34 PM
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If they win, what next ? pet shops won't be the next target, internet sales and imports will be the next target in my opinion.
In my opinion I don't think it will get that bad. Businesses pay taxes, be that VAT, income etc - with a value of around £200m for the reptile trade in the UK I can't see the government quick to cut off such a vital source of income. Ok I granted that the levels of taxation is no where near that on cigarettes and tobacco, which is why even after all the efforts of campaigners you can still purchase fags from you local corner shop, but given the impact such legislation on retailers would have to the economy I can't see it happening - but this is my view.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-2015, 11:42 PM
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OK, I've done more googling and read some old threads on here and other forums. The only impact I can see, should it go in favour of the council is that shows will eventually cease. If the review does go in favour of the council I can't see how this can be linked to stopping you or any of us keeping reptiles. This review (again as far as I can see) will not legislate the legality on keeping and breeding reptiles.
The antis will set a goal and apply a strategy to achieve that goal. They start with shows because they are an obvious first target, and they seem to have been quite successful in that goal. If reptile shows end they will then move their attention to other areas in reptile keeping and try to erode and destroy those.
who knows what they'll be able to achieve and where they'll fail. There are all manner of strategies they could employ to destroy their targets, I know what I would do if it were me, the hobby is hardly bulletproof regarding ethics and questionable practices. They will hit weak targets, malpractice in shops, cage sizes, mass importation, animal hoarding, and they will gather negative anti reptilekeeping propaganda on route. Your inability to see a direct link between the current battle to protect shows and how this could impact your right and my right to keep reptiles a little further down the line is rather naive. Reptiles are not dogs, we will not be afforded the same protection as dog owners. They will erode reptilekeeping if we don't fight them now. Saying they won't get far because they don't have the legs is shortsighted. You do nothing if you like. Let other people deal with it. I'd like kempton back. Maybe you don't care, but a lot of people do.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-2015, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Malc View Post
In my opinion I don't think it will get that bad. Businesses pay taxes, be that VAT, income etc - with a value of around £200m for the reptile trade in the UK I can't see the government quick to cut off such a vital source of income. Ok I granted that the levels of taxation is no where near that on cigarettes and tobacco, which is why even after all the efforts of campaigners you can still purchase fags from you local corner shop, but given the impact such legislation on retailers would have to the economy I can't see it happening - but this is my view.
Well it is just that Malc, opinions, we don't know for sure what success they may have.

My opinion has always been lets stand united and fight with all we have.

Surely doing nothing and just arguing with each other is not helping.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-2015, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete Q View Post
To some like yourself, shows mean nothing to your hobby, to others they enjoy them, why can't we respect this ? I think I remember meeting you at a show, seemed like you were enjoying it ?
I do not attend UK reptile markets/shows in any capacity any more and unfortunately have not met you. The last ones I attended were the Maidstone one in 2008 and prior to that an IHS show in Walsall in the 90s.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-2015, 08:04 AM
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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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