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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Natrix View Post
Before you start attacking the FBH......

How about you give it a rest for a while and save it all up for after the JR when we will all hopefully know what we are supposed to be doing to be legal.

Gordon

I havent attacked the FBH indeed I have donated - however I have asked for clarification, but it isn't forthcoming.

So when you don't like what you hear you tell people to shut up - what a crap strategy - I hope you aren't appearing at the review
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2015, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sharpstrain View Post
I have asked for clarification, but it isn't forthcoming.
What information is it that you feel hasn't been given?
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2015, 03:40 PM
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Well as Colin explained in his original piece, he wanted people to donate or not as simple as that.

From what I can see the detractors either havent been to a show for numerous years, are willing to come on here with Chinese whispers but not willing to tell the authorities at the time or are Royal Python breeders who are jealous of others success.

It would be easy enough for like minded hobbyists to set up their own federation or cooperative and run their own clubs, societies and shows. There is plenty of money in the hobby for the purchase of animals. Then again its easier to snipe from the wings at those who give their free time to the hobby and endeavour to make it better for all involved.

Einstein has been mentioned earlier, well it doesnt take Einstein to work out why the FBH need the money, does it? Without putting it in black and white.

People wonder why most of the FBH committtee dont bother with the forums any more. Its plainly obvious to me , what is the point? A vocal minority hide behind usernames to have a pop at any opportunity. This is to the detriment of the other forum users who are interested in the hobby issues.
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2015, 08:18 PM
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Donated. Come on guys lets nail their coffins tight.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2015, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sharpstrain View Post
I would like to see a detailed break down of the costs involved and defecit requiring funding. At the moment it feels like a vague request for money with no real detail, deadlines or other information. I am not a fan of generic funding requests, however if this is a request for a specific course of action then that is different - I am one for detail however
Isn't this the case with so many requests for donations? When one new organisation started out and I asked where the money was going to go, I was more or less told to mind my own business!
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by colinm View Post
Well as Colin explained in his original piece, he wanted people to donate or not as simple as that.

From what I can see the detractors either havent been to a show for numerous years, are willing to come on here with Chinese whispers but not willing to tell the authorities at the time or are Royal Python breeders who are jealous of others success.

It would be easy enough for like minded hobbyists to set up their own federation or cooperative and run their own clubs, societies and shows. There is plenty of money in the hobby for the purchase of animals. Then again its easier to snipe from the wings at those who give their free time to the hobby and endeavour to make it better for all involved.

Einstein has been mentioned earlier, well it doesnt take Einstein to work out why the FBH need the money, does it? Without putting it in black and white.

People wonder why most of the FBH committtee dont bother with the forums any more. Its plainly obvious to me , what is the point? A vocal minority hide behind usernames to have a pop at any opportunity. This is to the detriment of the other forum users who are interested in the hobby issues.
I did indeed visit Kempton last year and certainly witnessed several traders with stalls selling a variety of goods and also animals. I have no idea what your comment about Royal Python Breeders has to do with the discussion - I assume that it just an attempt to confuse the argument by adding something which is irrelevant and misleading. There is a fantastic book called Straight and Crooked Thinking., which highlights the dishonest methods that politically minded people use to win arguments - The technique that you are using is number 3 I believe.

As for Einstein - well I think the even he would agree, that when an organisation requests money, it would make sense for them to be clear about what it is for and also perfectly reasonable for people to ask. Especially when those people have made donations in the past and have received no information about how it was used or what the costs and budgetary defecit currently is for the specific project.

It is a shame that instead of being straightforward and open, the response has been evasive and aggressive - makes people feel suspicious rather than generous - if the answers are so simple then why don't the FBH answer them.

I am not a detractor (well I wasnt ) I just wanted an appropriate answer to a reasonable question.
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 09:58 AM
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Thanks for the bumps guys, this thread was dying.
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Natrix View Post
It's a reasonable question but there is a limit on how much can be said regarding the Judicial Review at this point in time. After the hearing we will be saying lots but for now the best I can do is say this;

A third party put pressure on Arun District Council to get the Portsmouth show stopped. This was done using information that appears to be lacking in accuracy, claiming that it would be illegal under the 1983 amendment of the 1951 pet animals act if hobbyists sold their excess stock at the show.

The council then allegedly stopped the show based on this information.

Our argument is that the 1983 amendment of the 1951 pet animals act does not stop hobbyists from selling at shows and that the Council did not have the authority to cancel an event based on the fact that something illegal MIGHT happen.

The FBH were left in a two direction situation. In one direction, we could of backed down and given up but we knew that we would then see every other council forced into the same action by the third party concerned and that it wouldnít have just stopped at reptile shows. This left the other direction which was to stand our ground and fight for our rights and that is what we have chosen to do.

As for costs, I wish I knew! Everything in this process costs money. Every meeting, every email, every phone call, every letter. Every minute spent researching the law and every minute spent discussing it. Not to mention the court costs for the days hearing. While we have a ball park figure floating around, the simple fact is, we wont know what this will all cost until it is all finished.

At this moment in time the bulk of the costs (now well over 10 K) have been met by the clubs along with money raised by the shows (fees and collections) and donations. Our opponents have spotted this and are trying to stop us by stopping this years shows, hence the loss of Kempton and Iíve no doubt a mountain of complaints to Doncaster council about the IHS show. Our day in court will more than double what we have paid already and if we loose..........well we just arenít going to loose because if we do, it wonít just be money that we lose, it will be all animal related events.

And yes WHEN we win we will be going for costs and looking for damages from our opponents but thatís after we win. For now we have to find the money and that means we have to ask everyone to help. So if your sitting around feeling annoyed at the loss of yet another show (Kempton) then help us to fight to get the shows back and donate a couple of quid. At this moment in time every penny counts.

Gordon Glasson
FBH Vice Chairman

Many thanks to all those that have donated so far.

I'm a bit puzzled to be honest by the reiteration that no answers have been given regarding what the money is needed for, or how much is needed. This seems to me to explain in reasonable detail - plus the fact that you really can't say a lot of things on a public forum while in the middle of legal action.

You don't know how much you need till afterwards, as you don't know what the other side will throw at you, or how long the lawyers need to work to sort it out.

How is this reply evasive or aggressive?
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