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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2013, 02:45 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,278

Originally Posted by PurpleHeyze View Post
Whats the difference between a black list and a white list?

I agree with this needing to be assessed by individual countries otherwise this is a rather ridiculous legislation
A Black (negative) List is a list of species that is banned.
A White (positive) List is a list of species that is allowed.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Twyford, Berkshire
Posts: 139

Wait is the criteria search list the actual list going through with the legislation or am I right in thinking that the legislation will go through and that each country or member in the EU will be able to suggest species to add to the list and then when it comes to actually putting them on the list they will compare them to the EASIN list to determin whether there is a chance and if there is a chance they will go on the list and if not they won't go on the list?

this is based on the statement in the lizard forum saying "The proposed Regulation will now be examined by the Council and the Parliament. Member States will be fully involved in compiling the list and can propose candidates for listing. The regime will be coupled with an information support mechanism: the European Alien Species Information Network (European Alien Species Information Network - European Commission )."
Blacks alive, Reds dead
1.1.0 Leopard Gecko - Momo and Erebus 0.0.1 - Crested Gecko - Harley
0.1.0 Musk Turtle - Tinks
0.1.2 Tegenaria duellica - Webster and Webby 1.1.0 Steatoda nobilis - McSpinner and spinerette
0.0.4 Orfe - Elphaba and the gang 0.0.1 Goldfish - Terry
0.0.1 Bristle nose plec - Chuck II 0.0.1 Bristle nose plec - Chuck
1.2.8 Smagdethnes africana oertzeni
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 15-09-2013, 12:01 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Stoke
Posts: 155

One problem with the legislation is that it doesn't distinguish between the temperatures. For example an African Claw Frog would be bad in Southern Italy, but would die in this country during the winter.

The UK has quite relaxed laws, because we can keep Alpine Newts, but it is a criminal offence to release them into the wild.

The EU is too broad brushed for it to be taken seriously. Just because one species is a threat to warmer countries e.g. Spain, doesn't mean it is a threat the UK, which has unpredictable weather so is very likely to kill any invasive species during winter. Unless they are from more temperate climates, which are less likely to be kept as pets (you need to keep them in the garage/outside) they are of little threat.

The countries which make up the EU already have regulations and laws in place to prevent invasive species. These laws are specific to one country's threats, and should not be a requirement for all EU countries.

If that comes in, us in the marine aquarium hobby wont be able to keep certain species of seaweed, which are invasive in the Mediterranean. These algae help absorb nitrates and phosphates so we need to do less water changes and oxygenate the water.

Just as a side note, we gain nothing from being in the EU. We pay more in than we get out of it, that includes indirect factors e.g. trade agreements. We are now paying for the debt of other EU countries. It is quite fortunate we don't use the Euro, because if we did one country's debt would have direct effects on our spending power.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 15-09-2013, 12:24 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Leeds
Posts: 730

So what does this legislation mean for our animals? Is it going to be a case of if they're banned are we going to be required to give them the needle? or is there going to be a system similar to the DWA act so that we can keep these interesting species.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 15-09-2013, 01:02 PM
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Location: Wolverhampton again, because we moved. :D
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It depends on the reaction our goverment has to it.

The EU recently passed legislation banning ALL apple snails, but you still see them in shops and on ebay. The reason been that our government's response was just to ban the important of apple snails initially. But this is because they think that doing this will cause a gradual decline in the numbers kept, they haven't accounted for the fact that they are very very easily bred in huge numbers...

Our biggest hope is that our government take this approach again, banning the import and export of banned species. End of the day, this is probably enough to keep the EU happy. With how sceptical the UK population, and a lot of MPs, are already over the EU it's possible this will be the case. That's my hope anyway.

If however they go the route of a complete ban, you can expect the same approach as they have taken with crayfish (that's a UK ban though, not an EU one) where if you keep, breed or sell species not on the white list (red claw crayfish been it. lol) you can face a fine of up to £4,000. This is enforced by CEFAS. My understanding though is that they mostly go after stores that import them and sell them. Policing what people do in their own homes is too difficult unless somebody shops them.

The annoying thing about this legislation is, they're just doing it to look good in the press. The popular media are all over this announcing how wonderful it is...

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2013, 05:10 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Stoke
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A lot of the time, especially with small issues (it is only an issue if they make it one) they just do it, as you said Ade to look good for the press. It must make an EU MP (or equivalent) immensely proud that they will damage the captive breeding projects. The invasive species are invasive because they are adaptable and breed rapidly, just what a hobbist wants.

Now if you are going to ban Alpine newts, why don't they ban goldfish. They can be considered an invasive species. They exist in multiple ecological niches (The animals feeding habits and where it breeds), so outcompete native species such as stickle backs. They grow larger, and breed more rapidly. They are also from Eastern Europe and West Russia, originally. And have spread throughout the temperate world.

So if they ban one animal, they, by their logic should ban most pets, which can survive in a temperate environment.

I am not asking for a ban, but their logic is both a blanket statement and flawed.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 22-03-2015, 12:39 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 493

Sorry if this comes across stupidly . That link to the list at the start all the species on that list will come under that role ? So even certain anolis etc? Is that right or have I missed something ?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2015, 09:00 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Portsmouth
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Dogs, Cats, Rabbits, Hamsters, Guinea Pigs, heck even most farm animals have all been introduced to Britain at one point so are by definition 'invasive' species. Isn't this a case of the ship has already sailed?

I can understand controlling the importation/breeding of specific species based on potential threat of them becoming pests (I recall many years ago reading a warning sheet that was given away with certain fluffy pets - Russian Hamsters IIRC - about the risks of releasing them into the wild, i.e. that within a very short time we could be wading knee deep in them) but the only animals in my care that would come under such a category would be my FBTs and Dubia Roaches. None of my reps would survive for long outside the house and none would be able to reproduce in our climate.
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