Worcestershire-based Stephen Rowlands in court over mistreatment of animals - Page 3 - Reptile Forums

Go Back   Reptile Forums > Help and Chat > Exotic Mammals


  #21 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 02:31 PM
mrcriss's Avatar
5 Star Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Rochdale
Posts: 4,123
Default

No Sir, I just find you exasperating and try these days to be the bigger man, and actively avoid you. I'd hoped at least in this case that our views would be mutual, and that yet another boring war wouldn't break out!
__________________
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars!"

0.1 Cockapoo - Scruff
1.0 Airedale Terrier - MONSTER!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 02:48 PM
kodakira's Avatar
Super Citizen
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North East England
Posts: 732
Default

This is just from experience so don't shoot lol.

My wife set an encounter business a number of years ago. As part of the licencing ( performing animals licence ) our local council person who deals with the licencing came around to view the animals and the enclosures etc..
The visit was unexpected, so as to get a proper look at the animals and how they were being kept.
The person was so on the ball, she wanted to know the back end of a fart ( scuse my language ). She wanted to know about the animals, how long we had them, wanted to see the food for the animals, see the enclosures, make sure they had the 5 freedoms etc. No stone was left unturned !!


We know of people some of them we know well who have literally been granted the licence with no visit or contact whatsover. I am not saying that most wouldn't have passed, quite the contrary but ?????

One such person was keeping the animals similar to Tropical Inc and despite being reported numerous times, nothing was ever done.

The system is a farce and varies from council to council.


The encounters business though successful is no longer operating for personal reasons. So I am not saying these things to stifle competition but out of concern for the animals.

Neil

Last edited by kodakira; 16-11-2013 at 02:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 02:53 PM
Salazare Slytherin's Avatar
No Life Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In the Amazon Rain Forest
Posts: 17,671
Reviews: 30
Default

As for where AR stands, I sure do hope your ready to fight them chris, because this certainly could turn into something we don't want.

As someone who like many others have, done some rescue work, I have never once, ever, no matter how hard it has been took on a reptile, or any animal for that matter without being able to give it what it needs, you need to know when to say no, I only the other day had a rant about this, you can't take people at face value, and this is a shining example of that, as responsible animal keepers, who care and love animals, it makes it even more important than ever to show that we are not all like that, and even we as a community frown on this.

It is very unfair to tarnish us with the same brush, I for one give my animals a very high standard of care, I take it very seriously, and this man should have known better, he should not have took them on without being able to provide for them, he should have prepared the enclosures before they even went to him, This disgusts me tbh, even those who are out their educating animals, children about these wonderful animals, do the exact opposite of what they do themselves, it isn't right.

Those kinds of enclosure like feorag said are not suitable for any animal to live in, that sort of thing has no place on this planet, he should have been banned.

I don't want to sound harsh, but it has to be said, though giving the situation I applaud the man for admitting it, and using his own expirience (sad for the animals involved) as an example of poor practice and it can help further raise awareness of just how quickly things can get out of hand, but the fact still remains, this has no place in this community, it has no place on this planet, and it is now even more important for our community to show that we are not all like this.

I for one think this is going to be a rough one, but it is up to our community to demonstrate, get behind those who can fight the good fight, and push you guys forward when it comes to the worst, AR definately will be using this one, you can pretty much bet on that, he let himself down, he let those who had respect for him down, and he has let this community down, and further yet, has showed animal keeping at it's worst.

I for one am still concerned for the animals welfare, afterall, they are in the care of the RSPCA.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bexzini
Salazare Slytherin is the sexiest RFUK'er there ever was nom

Last edited by Salazare Slytherin; 16-11-2013 at 03:06 PM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 03:18 PM
bothrops's Avatar
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 12,018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodakira View Post
This is just from experience so don't shoot lol.

My wife set an encounter business a number of years ago. As part of the licencing ( performing animals licence ) our local council person who deals with the licencing came around to view the animals and the enclosures etc..
The visit was unexpected, so as to get a proper look at the animals and how they were being kept.
The person was so on the ball, she wanted to know the back end of a fart ( scuse my language ). She wanted to know about the animals, how long we had them, wanted to see the food for the animals, see the enclosures, make sure they had the 5 freedoms etc. No stone was left unturned !!


We know of people some of them we know well who have literally been granted the licence with no visit or contact whatsover. I am not saying that most wouldn't have passed, quite the contrary but ?????

One such person was keeping the animals similar to Tropical Inc and despite being reported numerous times, nothing was ever done.

The system is a farce and varies from council to council.


The encounters business though successful is no longer operating for personal reasons. So I am not saying these things to stifle competition but out of concern for the animals.

Neil

Too true.

When I applied for mine, it was simply for taking a few of my animals to the local youth groups, cadets, scouts etc and the odd birthday party for friends. I filled out the form and put all of my animals on them. Nothing like the range here, but the list contained the 'standard fair' (large boa, APH's, millipedes, cockroaches, chile rose, corns, royals, a large bull snake, beardies, leos etc). I also included rats on there as we often took them as well (put not if we took the snakes!).

I filled in the form and sent in my cheque.

When we had our visit, two lovely young ladies in jodhpers turned up with an envelope. They came into the front room (where our rats were kept at the time), cooed over them for a few minutes and had 'cuddles' from them.

They were then asked if they wanted to see the others. They replied, "No thanks, we've got to get off". They then handed me the envelope they had bought with them (which contained my license, already signed and laminated) and left.


I was quite surprised TBH as I had expected quite a large and drawn out conversation discussing my intentions, my husbandry etc and had even considered having to explain why the beardy didn't have water in with him etc!



I bought the license, I didn't achieve it.
__________________
_____________________
I'm happy with a house full of herps"


http://andysboamorphs.webs.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saedcantas View Post
It's a well known fact that you can't reason (or debate) with morons.
VEGETARIAN - An old American Indian word for 'Bad Hunter'
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 03:24 PM
mrcriss's Avatar
5 Star Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Rochdale
Posts: 4,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bothrops View Post
Too true.

When I applied for mine, it was simply for taking a few of my animals to the local youth groups, cadets, scouts etc and the odd birthday party for friends. I filled out the form and put all of my animals on them. Nothing like the range here, but the list contained the 'standard fair' (large boa, APH's, millipedes, cockroaches, chile rose, corns, royals, a large bull snake, beardies, leos etc). I also included rats on there as we often took them as well (put not if we took the snakes!).

I filled in the form and sent in my cheque.

When we had our visit, two lovely young ladies in jodhpers turned up with an envelope. They came into the front room (where our rats were kept at the time), cooed over them for a few minutes and had 'cuddles' from them.

They were then asked if they wanted to see the others. They replied, "No thanks, we've got to get off". They then handed me the envelope they had bought with them (which contained my license, already signed and laminated) and left.


I was quite surprised TBH as I had expected quite a large and drawn out conversation discussing my intentions, my husbandry etc and had even considered having to explain why the beardy didn't have water in with him etc!



I bought the license, I didn't achieve it.
That's like Gestapo interrogation compared to mine! I just went to the council offices and sorted it out there!
__________________
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars!"

0.1 Cockapoo - Scruff
1.0 Airedale Terrier - MONSTER!
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 03:38 PM
Specialist Wildlife's Avatar
Hatchling
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 41
Default ongoing care.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salazare Slytherin View Post
I for one am still concerned for the animals welfare, afterall, they are in the care of the RSPCA.



While the debate rumbles on, I will just remove one thing from it by addressing everyone's concerns about the care of animals removed from Tropical Inc.

Although the RSPCA & the police were involved in the initial visit and subsequent prosecution we were drafted in to deal with all the livestock. Our only task is to ensure their welfare needs are met and that any animals requiring veterinary care are provided with whatever they need at any point throughout the process.

Of 74 animals removed there were 6 deaths in total over the 9 month period, with most of them at the start (typically due to the condition they were received in).
Only 1 animal was euthanized almost immediately (although the vet spent 2 hours operating and providing emergency care before that decision was taken on welfare grounds due to the on going pain it was likely to suffer over an extended period of time).
All others were provided with treatment and pain relief as recommended by some of the UKs leading zoo vets.
They were all given a fighting chance and lots of care by a dedicated team of qualified staff and vets. Unfortunately even with the best will in the world & excellent veterinary care we cant fix every animal which comes to us.

The task of ensuring the animals needs are met at the highest standard was delegated to ourselves and the zoo vets from the first moment.
The RSPCA have not interfered with any operational decisions at any point and our instruction from the very beginning has been that each individual animals welfare is the top priority.


We have no role to play in any prosecutions or legal action and have no opinions to offer on the conditions in which the animals were kept, other than to say that they wouldn't meet our minimum holding standards.


We are only ever drafted in to ensure that the welfare requirements of any animal seized is met from the point at which they come into our care.

Once fit (and after any legal action is complete) all zoo animals are placed in the care of appropriately licensed zoos & similar premises.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 04:43 PM
Premier Citizen
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salazare Slytherin View Post
As for where AR stands, I sure do hope your ready to fight them chris, because this certainly could turn into something we don't want.

As someone who like many others have, done some rescue work, I have never once, ever, no matter how hard it has been took on a reptile, or any animal for that matter without being able to give it what it needs, you need to know when to say no, I only the other day had a rant about this, you can't take people at face value, and this is a shining example of that, as responsible animal keepers, who care and love animals, it makes it even more important than ever to show that we are not all like that, and even we as a community frown on this.

It is very unfair to tarnish us with the same brush, I for one give my animals a very high standard of care, I take it very seriously, and this man should have known better, he should not have took them on without being able to provide for them, he should have prepared the enclosures before they even went to him, This disgusts me tbh, even those who are out their educating animals, children about these wonderful animals, do the exact opposite of what they do themselves, it isn't right.

Those kinds of enclosure like feorag said are not suitable for any animal to live in, that sort of thing has no place on this planet, he should have been banned.

I don't want to sound harsh, but it has to be said, though giving the situation I applaud the man for admitting it, and using his own expirience (sad for the animals involved) as an example of poor practice and it can help further raise awareness of just how quickly things can get out of hand, but the fact still remains, this has no place in this community, it has no place on this planet, and it is now even more important for our community to show that we are not all like this.

I for one think this is going to be a rough one, but it is up to our community to demonstrate, get behind those who can fight the good fight, and push you guys forward when it comes to the worst, AR definately will be using this one, you can pretty much bet on that, he let himself down, he let those who had respect for him down, and he has let this community down, and further yet, has showed animal keeping at it's worst.

I for one am still concerned for the animals welfare, afterall, they are in the care of the RSPCA.
I am always ready for a scrap with the AR nutters, and they will be swarming all over this like flies on a cowpat….!! Unfortunately the extremists will be exploiting this case for maximum publicity (donations) and will endeavour to tar everyone with the same brush – quite simply that is what they do!

This matter is complex as there are more than one issue at play, indeed there are least three elements: sanctuaries, rehoming and educational displays all wrapped up in this. Under the Animal Welfare Act, the then Labour government committed to Secondary Legislation on Sanctuaries which would have been great, sadly it never happened and the likelihood of any such legislation being forthcoming in the foreseeable future is extremely remote, to be blunt the chance is nil.

There are solutions without resorting to Secondary legislation, which as much as they (the fanatics) will jump up and down demeaning; they know full well, as I do, there is not a cat in hells chance this will happen! Therefore what needs to be done is to be objective, look at the legislation that is available and see what can be done to improve matters, and I think the solutions are not insurmountable.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 05:08 PM
nelly1's Avatar
Premier Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: keighley
Posts: 8,687
Default

did the FBH have any part to play in this mans legal representation ?
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 06:18 PM
Draco's Avatar
Forum Citizen
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Salisbury, Wilts, UK
Posts: 520
Default

although no ban.

12 weeks inside, 200 hour unpayed work an pay £106,580 (correct me if I wrong on that.

for me thats enothe to put anyone off from doing it again. A ban is easy to get round, and to be the easy way out.
__________________
Suzie
Ownd By
4.2 Tallie, Swift, Turlow, Merlin, Emrys and Squib the ferrets
2.0 Dust and Foggy the gerbil
2.0 Rainbow Millipedes
0.0.6 GALS
0.7 Sun Beetles
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2013, 06:25 PM
Premier Citizen
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nelly1 View Post
did the FBH have any part to play in this mans legal representation ?
None….
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please Help Stop this kind of snake and prey mistreatment Noomim General Herp Chat 2 23-04-2010 03:00 AM
Please Help Stop this kind of snake a nd prey mistreatment Noomim General Herp Chat 1 23-04-2010 02:48 AM
Shop query....mistreatment?? ianmcardle Snakes 8 07-11-2007 08:59 AM
Snake mistreatment: RSPCA cornsnakeman Snakes 49 21-06-2006 02:03 AM



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:23 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2005 - 2011, Reptile Forums (RFUK™)